When did they change the balk rule?

[UMP25]

The fact that KF believes ejections are ego-driven indicates that he does not understand the role of an umpire or the proper process by which baseball umpires are to handle certain situations. Baseball is unique among the major sports when it comes to doling out specific penalties to violators of rules or conduct.

We can't issue yellow cards. We can't penalize 15 yards for unsportsmanlike conduct. We can't call a technical. If someone personally insults us, if someone swears at us, we have two choices: leave said person in the game or remove them from the game. To choose the former results in our losing control of the game and letting said violators get away with actions they are not supposed to do. It also sends a poor message to the opposition: go ahead and demean me as an official, because I lack the fortitude to deal with it.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by UMP25

The fact that KF believes ejections are ego-driven indicates that he does not understand the role of an umpire or the proper process by which baseball umpires are to handle certain situations. Baseball is unique among the major sports when it comes to doling out specific penalties to violators of rules or conduct.

We can't issue yellow cards. We can't penalize 15 yards for unsportsmanlike conduct. We can't call a technical. If someone personally insults us, if someone swears at us, we have two choices: leave said person in the game or remove them from the game. To choose the former results in our losing control of the game and letting said violators get away with actions they are not supposed to do. It also sends a poor message to the opposition: go ahead and demean me as an official, because I lack the fortitude to deal with it.

That is the problem with baseball (unless you are doing FED). There are no 2nd chances for the offenders. Baseball was designed as a "Gentleman's Game" meaning you held your tongue and played the game - simple as that! Ain't that way anymore, boys!

Oh and when a coach swears at me, as far as I am concerned, he just made it personal ------ GONE!

[zm1283]

I'm not going to judge Kevin because I've never seen him umpire. With that said, basketball is much the same way with technical fouls. I know guys who just will not T a coach because they think it will piss said coach off, they want to "keep him in the game", or some other excuse to justify not having to take care of business. It's just a foul, just like any other foul. It's also frustrating as the partner of the guy who won't take care of business because the coach thinks he can walk all over you as well, then you pop him and all of a sudden you're the bad guy because you had to do what your partner wouldn't.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by zm1283

I'm not going to judge Kevin because I've never seen him umpire. With that said, basketball is much the same way with technical fouls. I know guys who just will not T a coach because they think it will piss said coach off, they want to "keep him in the game", or some other excuse to justify not having to take care of business. It's just a foul, just like any other foul. It's also frustrating as the partner of the guy who won't take care of business because the coach thinks he can walk all over you as well, then you pop him and all of a sudden you're the bad guy because you had to do what your partner wouldn't.

In the last 2 months I called a technical on a head coach (basketball) and also ejected an assistant coach (baseball). Both varsity level.

The basketball technical came when a player fouled out and the coach refused to give me a sub. I started the clock, told the coach he couldn't have a time out until the player was replaced, and waited. He kept insisting he wanted a time out and refused to give me a sub. After waiting 20 seconds, I asked one more time and then issued the technical.

The baseball ejection came after I called a runner out for missing first base. It was the third out of the inning and took a run off the board. I headed to the outfield and the coach was yelling at me "you need to open your freaking eyes and watch the game." The first time I ignored the comment and walked a bit deeper into the outfield. The second time (louder), I decided I needed to put a stop to it, so I told the coach I heard him and I had heard enough (long distance, but I had actually closed the distance in a non-threatening way). The third time, he ejected himself. You can't fix stupid.

I do not understand how anyone who works a significant number of games does not have an ejection. Ejections find you -- it may only be one or two a year or it may be 2-3 years between them....or it may be three in a game like I had last year, but when a coach crosses that line I fail to do my job if I don't eject. And then others see me not doing my job and I get a reputation as someone who doesn't do his job and so on and so on....

[Durham]

A small rule of thumb; usually if saying it makes me feel good, I probably shouldn't say it.

Example,

Coach comes out on a close one and says, " you missed that!" I reply, your team has 4 erros in 3 innings and I didn't see you run out here to tell them that they missed those." Sarcasim is usually bad on the field, but that doesn't mean I sometimes don't use it.

[UMP25]

I think subtle sarcasm, if that, is one thing, but heavy sarcasm like the example you give is unacceptable. I'm sure all of us at some time in our careers has always wanted to pop off at a coach and remind him of his team's collapse, but we don't. We just smile or laugh inside ourselves when they blame us for costing them a run or the game, even though it was their 4 errors in one inning that resulted in the opposition scoring 8 runs.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by UMP25

The fact that KF believes ejections are ego-driven indicates that he does not understand the role of an umpire or the proper process by which baseball umpires are to handle certain situations. Baseball is unique among the major sports when it comes to doling out specific penalties to violators of rules or conduct.

We can't issue yellow cards. We can't penalize 15 yards for unsportsmanlike conduct. We can't call a technical. If someone personally insults us, if someone swears at us, we have two choices: leave said person in the game or remove them from the game. To choose the former results in our losing control of the game and letting said violators get away with actions they are not supposed to do. It also sends a poor message to the opposition: go ahead and demean me as an official, because I lack the fortitude to deal with it.

If prejudice and shallowness and lack of profound thought are part of your life, try to avoid automatically ascribing it to all others. You are not qualified to judge me as a baseball man, given your tendencies.

Work on controlling your personality (that you freely and proudly admit you fail to control) in your work and maybe you won't get sworn at so much.

And if you lack courage, don't automatically ascribe that to others, either.

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

You are not qualified to judge me as a baseball man...

I forgot. Judging others is your job.



And as far as my personality, there is nothing wrong with it. It has served me well in umpiring and has earned me much respect over my 32-year career. Your allusion to it is rather bizarre, as is your excusing head coaches barreling out of dugouts swearing at umpires over balls and strikes.

If I were a head coach, I'd eat you alive on the ball field.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by Matt

I, too, do not see this as baiting, and furthermore, I don't see it as necessarily being sarcastic.



I will. As a law-enforcement and military professional, I will always have a negative assessment of someone who refuses to consider using all available options when faced with conflict. It limits your ability to resolve it satisfactorily.



"Virtually always?" That's an oxymoron. Wordsmithing like this is a sign of someone attempting to convince himself what he says is true.



Here lies your problem--you view an ejection as a negative act, one that you must initiate. It is not. It is nothing more than a tool that is needed and proper for game management.

Think about police officers and arrests. The arrest is merely the logical end result of a series of actions, of which at least one is negative--it's not the negative action itself. We wouldn't praise a cop that has no arrests, and we shouldn't praise the umpire that keeps participants around at all costs.



This part has already been addressed. If someone has crossed the line, there is a need to toss him.



I will say this--anyone who talks about "the game" as some sort of revered entity has a misplaced sense of reverence.

Furthermore, ejections are a part of baseball, and anyone who dismisses them as "ego-driven" really should reconsider being an umpire.



Again, you conflate an ejection with ego. It's not about personal issues, it's simply a necessary part of baseball. Don't read more into it than what is there. Just like my police officer analogy--sure, there are times where cops take personal satisfaction in removing a less-than-productive member of society from the rest of it. However, the majority of times, an arrest is nothing more than an affirmation that a person has to account for his or her behavior.

A) Coaches haven't sworn at me. If anyone ever swears at me, or threatens me, or impugns my integrity, I'll toss them, like I have a player for doing such a thing. That hasn't happened yet from a coach.
B) In Los Angeles, if you eject the coach, the game is over---so try not to apply your standards to everyone's work. They may not apply. I refuse to deny everyone the opportunity to see a ballgame because of a single jerk.
C) If you want to act like a cop or a sergeant (or lieutenant) go ahead. I am a manager and that's what is needed on a diamond---not a cop or a sergeant. I choose to manage games for the greater good, and not police them. I am authoritative and respectful.

I have always thought it was something to be proud of to keep my cool in public settings. Apparently, there are those who lack that skill or willingness or patience or thick skin in their role as umpire. I have it, and I use it.

I also don't prejudge all coaches. That helps a lot. Some of them are respectable, and when they're respected, they show respect in return. And you don't even need a gun to get respect like a cop does.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by UMP25

I forgot. Judging others is your job.



And as far as my personality, there is nothing wrong with it. It has served me well in umpiring and has earned me much respect over my 32-year career. Your allusion to it is rather bizarre, as is your excusing head coaches barreling out of dugouts swearing at umpires over balls and strikes.

If I were a head coach, I'd eat you alive on the ball field.

You play a lot of games. That's your choice.

And you choose not to control your personality when you work (like you freely admitted in starting this topic). It is your choice. It is unprofessional, but it's your choice. It results in outcomes that are unfavorable to the participants when you fail to control your personality, but it's your choice.

You would eat me alive? Stay in your little haven and play your little ego games. The big city is probably not for you.

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

I have always thought it was something to be proud of to keep my cool in public settings. Apparently, there are those who lack that skill or willingness or patience or thick skin in their role as umpire.

In 32 years I've never "lost my cool," and my ejection last weekend of the head coach was another example of an ejection where I didn't lose my cool. He swore at me; I ejected him. He went chest-to-chest with me yelling and screaming, but I didn't return the favor. I simply wrote down on my lineup card the information needed in my report to be submitted later that day.

If ejecting someone is "losing your cool," then I feel sorry for you as an umpire, because your lack of reality is shocking.

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by Durham

Coach comes out on a close one and says, " you missed that!" I reply, your team has 4 erros in 3 innings and I didn't see you run out here to tell them that they missed those." Sarcasim is usually bad on the field, but that doesn't mean I sometimes don't use it.

Even if his team is kicking the ball around, I think he still has the right to come out and say that he thinks you missed it...it's different if he's blaming you for the outcome of the game, then you can point out the errors...but if you miss a call whether or not his team as 10 errors or zero errors, we shouldn't umpire any differently right? IMO, if we miss one, we can't illogically say, "well, your team is kicking the ball around and I don't hear you yelling at them..." while you might be right, overall, that approach isn't good coaching. If there defense is that bad, coach will let them know.

Don't get me wrong, I get what you're saying, but there's no logic there...in comparing defensive sucess to whether or not your call was correct.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by UMP25

In 32 years I've never "lost my cool," and my ejection last weekend of the head coach was another example of an ejection where I didn't lose my cool. He swore at me; I ejected him. He went chest-to-chest with me yelling and screaming, but I didn't return the favor. I simply wrote down on my lineup card the information needed in my report to be submitted later that day.

If ejecting someone is "losing your cool," then I feel sorry for you as an umpire, because your lack of reality is shocking.

You didn't lose your cool that time. You were admittedly baiting him by being sarcastic and verbose on that particular occasion. I am referring to a general climate that is worsened by certain umpires who are thin skinned or temperamental.

Shocking lack of reality ...

You are a very amusing small-town veteran. Keep up with the baiting and the sarcasm; I'll keep up with the decorum and control. I like my results better.

[UMP25]

Small town??? Son, the fact that you believe the Chicago Metropolitan area is a small-town environment only serves to prove your lack of understanding reality.

Oh, and simply asking a head coach when I should call a balk is not being verbose. He told me I couldn't call a balk. I asked him under which situations it is acceptable to call one. He then swore at me. I appropriately ejected him.

You just can't accept the fact that I am still successful as a college umpire, despite having a few ejections per year.

[HokieUmp]

Originally Posted by UMP25

A head coach who bolts out of the dugout to scream at me about a balk call is going to get ejected regardless of whether I ask him if I'm supposed to check the runners' positions before I call a balk.

That's new information, then. I know the OP said you turned and the HC was already there, but now it's clarified that he came roaring out. And that he's screaming. (Not trying to be pedantic, but you seem to have detailed it more at this point.)

I love the sanctimony of a few folks here. No one's perfect, of course, but I've never had a problem where game management has been concerned.

I'm hoping that wasn't directed at my query, although I realize I started the sh!tstorm here. I'm not asking about your game mgmt, and I don't think I was being sanctimonious. When I read the OP, I just felt "that didn't seem right to me," and that it read as though you baited him into that. Sure, he swore at you, so you ran him. But don't you think your responses from the start channeled his Force/karma/ki right into the EJ? I do. And I'm not alone, either. It's not as simple as your latest post: "I asked him under which situations it is acceptable to call one." I'm sure that's what the EJ report read, but still.

(And isn't more swearing allowed the older/higher level it goes? Or is the NCAA like high school about it?)

And my original point is: if one of us, that haven't been accepted into the Internet Forum Umpire Inner Sanctum, told that same story as posted, we'd be ripped 7 ways to Sunday for it, because we baited the HC. And we'd get told how we'll never work above middle school, or some other d@mn thing, and how we needed to work on our game management.

So maybe as a successful college umpire, you'd consider taking that on board.