So who saw the rules screw-up in Wednesday's (4-15-09) Padres @ Mets game?

[UmpTTS43]

Originally Posted by Armadillo_Blue

The terms refer to the status of the runner upon whom the appeal is being made. If the runner is making an attempt to return to the bag after missing it then a tag must be applied. If the runner is not attempting to return then the action is unrelaxed and the base can be touched and a verbal appeal made.

OBR. This is only true at home plate. If R1 misses second as he rounds it, he can be out on appeal by the fielder simply saying "he missed the base" and then tagging the base regardless if the runner is trying to get back or not. Pro interpretations do not recognize J/R's interp of "relaxed/unrelaxed" for missed base appeals.

[soundedlikeastrike]

So your implying the rule reads:

"No pitcher may be substituted after one visit if the same batters at bat."

I and apparently the crew working the OP disagree.

The rule means you can't go out and "visit".

If C is yanking him, I wouldn't consider that a visit.

And IMO on the relaxed vs unrelaxed appeal, side on the D, don't ever disadvantage the D for the O error.

EX: R2 base hit, throw to retire R2 at HP swipe tag misses the runner, runner misses the plate and is several feet removed, but attempting to scramble back, mean while BR is digging for 2B. If F2 has his head about him and appeals, I would grant the appeal and hopefully allow an out on the BR at
2nd. Umpires like outs.

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by soundedlikeastrike

So your implying the rule reads:

"No pitcher may be substituted after one visit if the same batters at bat."

I and apparently the crew working the OP disagree.

The rule means you can't go out and "visit".

If C is yanking him, I wouldn't consider that a visit.

Whether you consider it a "visit" or not is irrelevant. A manager/coach cannot make a second trip to the same pitcher while the same batter is at bat. Period. Furthermore, the manager/coach cannot try to circumvent this by just changing his pitcher, even if he does so from the dugout. The at-bat must be completed before the already-visited pitcher can be removed (absent injury or substitute).

The crew working this game didn't disagree; they simply f---ed up.

[ManInBlue]

Originally Posted by soundedlikeastrike

So your implying the rule reads:

"No pitcher may be substituted after one visit if the same batters at bat."

I and apparently the crew working the OP disagree.

The rule means you can't go out and "visit".

If C is yanking him, I wouldn't consider that a visit.

I didn't mean to imply that. I meant to be stating it. UMP25 already answered this, but the pitcher has to complete the at bat before he can be "re-visited." OBR also state 2nd visit to the same pitcher in the same inning gets him yanked - Skip doesn't have to tell us he's pulling him. The only exception to completing the at bat is injury.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by soundedlikeastrike

So your implying the rule reads:

"No pitcher may be substituted after one visit if the same batters at bat."

I and apparently the crew working the OP disagree.

The rule means you can't go out and "visit".

If C is yanking him, I wouldn't consider that a visit.

You are wrong and so was the crew. They do screw up in the big leagues from time to time.

Absent an injury or a substitute for the batter, F1 must finish the at bat or complete the inning, whichever comes first.

[UMP25]

In addition, if it would have been an injury, the PU should have accompanied the Padres manager to the mound to ensure it was, in fact, an injury.

[Armadillo_Blue]

Originally Posted by UmpTTS43

OBR. This is only true at home plate. If R1 misses second as he rounds it, he can be out on appeal by the fielder simply saying "he missed the base" and then tagging the base regardless if the runner is trying to get back or not. Pro interpretations do not recognize J/R's interp of "relaxed/unrelaxed" for missed base appeals.

I was not aware that the interp only applied to home. For some reason I had the impression that it applied at the bases as well.

Does J/R suggest it for the bases and the pros just don't do it that way or did I misunderstand?

Is there a difference in the pro interp between a runner who misses rounding the bag and then realizes it and comes running back vs. a runner who slides in and misses the bag while the fielder misses the tag and then scrambles back?

In soundedlikeastrike's example, remember that the D erred also by missing the tag, so we are not penalizing them for an offensive error. If the runner is scrambling back to the plate make the catcher tag him.