Overthrows with Pressure

[Kevin Finnerty]

I fully expected you to somehow make the distinction between you professionals, and all of us lower-level, and therefore, lesser umpires.

I guess my amateurishness is what makes me instinctively employ the better and more effective mechanic and prefer it to the one that the professional manuals have neglected to change to what even Jim Evans believes is a better mechanic.

[UmpJM]

Kevin,

You're doing it again.

Really.

Now, if you'd rather have a serious discussion about umpiring than a pissing contest....

...what even Jim Evans believes is a better mechanic.

Cite please.

I believe your assertion to be incorrect. While I believe he would term it an "acceptable" mechanic, I believe he would say the other is "preferred". Maybe he's changed his position on the question since I attended his training.

Cite please.

JM

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

Kevin,
You're doing it again.

Really.

Now, if you'd rather have a serious discussion about umpiring than a pissing contest....

Cite please.

I believe your assertion to be incorrect. While I believe he would term it an "acceptable" mechanic, I believe he would say the other is "preferred". Maybe he's changed his position on the question since I attended his training.

Cite please.

JM

Sorry, sorry, JM ... you're right, the word was acceptable and not preferred. And I also should have used one of these:

But the point's the same.

Tuss started a great debate, and I truly believe that the PU taking the runner on that play is easily preferable to a B1 possibly interfering with the defensive play, the baserunning play and possibly even the throw to second, all while getting an angle later and being farther away from the potential play at second.

So the PBUC manual says that's the way, and the best defense of it so far has been that the base umpire should take it because he's too proud to have the guy with the head start to second and the better angle take the play.

[UmpTTS43]

From Maximizing the Two-Umpire System copyright 2008 by JEAPU, authored by Jim Evans and Dick Nelson, pg. 52

4.16 Overthrows at First Base

On all throws which originate from the left side when the base umpire is in fair territory, the plate umpire is responsible for the overthrow. When the base umpire is positioned in foul territory on throws originating from the right side, there are two techniques for handling the overthrow:

1. The base umpire busts into fair territory onto the infield grass as the batter-runner overruns first base. He is responsible for any follow-up play on the batter-runner except at home. When moving into position, it is important that the base umpire observe the batter-runner who has overrun the base. It is critical that the umpire knows whether or not the batter-runner attempte to advance. In this case, the plate umpire is responsible for the ball and must determine whether it goes out of play or is touched by a spectator.

2. An alternate procedure shifts resposibility for the overthrow to the base umpire who is in foul territory and requires the plate umpire to take all subsequent play responsibility on the batter-runner. With no runner on base and a ground ball hit to the right side, the plate umpire should always advance up the first base line so that he is in position to initiate an interference call, take resonsibility for an overthow, or help out whith a swipe tag. Since he is up the line and has a chance to get ahead of the batter-runner if he attempts to advance, some feel that it is more efficient to shift responsibility for the batter-runner to the plate umpire.

Regardless of your personal feelings, it is imperative that these two mechanics are thoroughly disussed prior to the game and each umpire fully understands his responsibilities.