Overthrows with Pressure

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

Lastly, going into foul territory on pressure is something you must do if you want to develop a good angle, end of story.

Nonsense. There is more to the story. Ask the PBUC evaluators some time.

[Maz17]

This is so stupid. There is NO QUESTION in my mind that all of you... I do not care if you are an Olympic Sprinter... none of you... as a BU can stay ahead of a B/R if you read pressure and go foul! And if you try you will be on the move for a call at 2nd.

THE RED (PBUC) MANUAL states that the PU will take the B/R if the BU reads pressure and goes foul.

If the BU takes the B/R you will be looking up his rear... and have a bad angle... and be on the move!

GUYS... THINK IT THROUGH!

[johnnyg08]

I agree Maz17...there's no other way to cover this IMO...I guess in my pregames, this is how we'll do it...those who disagree on here can do it their way.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by Maz17

This is so stupid. There is NO QUESTION in my mind that all of you... I do not care if you are an Olympic Sprinter... none of you... as a BU can stay ahead of a B/R if you read pressure and go foul!

Sorry. I apologize for reading right through the part about BU going into foul territory at first read.

I would not have done so. I have learned through some young A and AA umpires and their evaluators that there really is hardly ever a "need" to go foul. (One of the great things about this area is that I can choose to watch a Single A, Double A or Triple A game most days, and get to chat with young umpires with a variety of experience)

I do not go into foul territory.

I am retired and not an Olympic sprinter and even I can bust in and get to the cut out at second ahead of B/R. I don't see the problem.

[gordon30307]

No runners on with BU in foul territory with an overthrow there's a strong possibility BU will be "delayed" (may have to dodge the ball, BR or 1B) in his ability to take BR into second. This is an easy play for the PU taking BR into second.

[johnnyg08]

not all PU's!!!

[gordon30307]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

not all PU's!!!

As PU you better be busting your *** to get to the 45 foot line. If your partner gets PINCHED (ie. impeded in some way, trips etc.) you better be prepared to take BR to second. Easy coverage from there. No different than when your partner goes out on a fly ball.

[SAump]

Originally Posted by gordon30307

As PU you better be busting your *** to get to the 45 foot line. If your partner gets PINCHED (ie. impeded in some way, trips etc.) you better be prepared to take BR to second. Easy coverage from there. No different than when your partner goes out on a fly ball.

Part I
I know some of you may be smarter and faster than some of us. But let's not turn this into an age or physical difference type of argument between PU and BU. If BU and PU are both on the foul line, then both are the same distance away from 2B. Okay, so both are identical clones and "almost" the same distance away from a place near 2B. The overthrow is toward the PU. Who should follow the ball into the fence and the carrom towards the backstop behind the plate? Who is already there to see a ball go dead? The PU would also have a hard time running in the opposite direction from a ball thrown in his direction. Now I can't see how a PU knew a bang-bang play was about to occur at 2B and how he felt he should hustle on over there to get the call right. I can't see why a BU would decide to go near a 1B coach in this situation.

Part II
Even if a player collides with the BU, PU taking runner to 2B has "covered BU's ask" written all over it. The BU must be standing too close to the action and not correctly reading a bad throw. If BU continues to mess the coverage, mess the bangor, and mess the coach's explanation; then only in private consultation would the PU provide a view of the play.

[Kevin Finnerty]

The area in which U1 is working has F4, F3, F1, the BR and the base coach to contend with. The PU has no one to contend with and a clear, straight shot, with an angle all the way to wherever he comes set.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by SAump

If BU and PU are both on the foul line, then both are the same distance away from 2B. Okay, so both are identical clones and "almost" the same distance away from a place near 2B.

So what? Distance is not the deciding factor.

Originally Posted by SAump

The overthrow is toward the PU. Who should follow the ball into the fence and the carrom towards the backstop behind the plate?

BU, since he's looking in that direction anyway.

Originally Posted by SAump

Who is already there to see a ball go dead? The PU would also have a hard time running in the opposite direction from a ball thrown in his direction.

BU has the same problem in your situation. Either way, if the ball caroms towards the backstop, the umpire covering second is going to have, at best, a peripheral look at the ball.

Originally Posted by SAump

Even if a player collides with the BU, PU taking runner to 2B has "covered BU's ask" written all over it.

Again, so what? Once the throw is botched or the collision occurs, everyone knows that standard coverage might be out the window.

Originally Posted by SAump

The BU must be standing too close to the action and not correctly reading a bad throw. If BU continues to mess the coverage, mess the bangor, and mess the coach's explanation

You're acting on a faulty premise that BU made a mistake.

Originally Posted by SAump

then only in private consultation would the PU provide a view of the play.

So, you advocate PU giving information from a lesser position in a more haphazard way.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by gordon30307

No runners on with BU in foul territory with an overthrow there's a strong possibility BU will be "delayed" (may have to dodge the ball, BR or 1B) in his ability to take BR into second. This is an easy play for the PU taking BR into second.

Geez, another seasoned umpire is using logic rather than clinging desperately to an outdated mechanic that they haven't gotten around to changing.