Overthrows with Pressure

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

mazza,

Thanks. It would appear my copy has become "outdated".

JM

Yep.

Another "benefit" of the new edition...it's spiral bound.

I wish Evans had either done that or saddle-stitched his book. A friend's book has already begun to separate at the glued binding. I took mine to kinkos and had it "drilled" and put in a three ring binder.

[johnnyg08]

the spiral bound is nice. i think J/R is spiral bound too. BRD is...I'd like to see that on the PBUC and the Red book

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by BigTex

I will take option C-

The BU in a 2-man system should never go into foul territory on a play like this.

Wow, you posted my choice in the fifth post of the thread! Why in the world should the BU ever feel that much pressure from F-4 to move into foul territory? If F-4 is that close to the line, and F-3 can't get to the ball, then start moving in towards the cut. I always hated it when the BU would automatically figure he would move into foul ground any time F-4 moved to his left to field a grounder, making me run my butt off on the overthrow. I am of the same philosophy as Big Tex here: Option C.

Oh, in the poll, I voted that the PU takes the runner, because good old BU already stepped into foul territory, and you can't get the pooh back in the bear.

[gordon30307]

No runners on with BU in foul territory with an overthrow there's a strong possibility BU will be "delayed" (may have to dodge the ball, BR or 1B) in his ability to take BR into second. This is an easy play for the PU taking BR into second.

[johnnyg08]

not all PU's!!!

[gordon30307]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

not all PU's!!!

As PU you better be busting your *** to get to the 45 foot line. If your partner gets PINCHED (ie. impeded in some way, trips etc.) you better be prepared to take BR to second. Easy coverage from there. No different than when your partner goes out on a fly ball.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by gordon30307

No runners on with BU in foul territory with an overthrow there's a strong possibility BU will be "delayed" (may have to dodge the ball, BR or 1B) in his ability to take BR into second. This is an easy play for the PU taking BR into second.

Geez, another seasoned umpire is using logic rather than clinging desperately to an outdated mechanic that they haven't gotten around to changing.

[SAump]

Originally Posted by gordon30307

As PU you better be busting your *** to get to the 45 foot line. If your partner gets PINCHED (ie. impeded in some way, trips etc.) you better be prepared to take BR to second. Easy coverage from there. No different than when your partner goes out on a fly ball.

Part I
I know some of you may be smarter and faster than some of us. But let's not turn this into an age or physical difference type of argument between PU and BU. If BU and PU are both on the foul line, then both are the same distance away from 2B. Okay, so both are identical clones and "almost" the same distance away from a place near 2B. The overthrow is toward the PU. Who should follow the ball into the fence and the carrom towards the backstop behind the plate? Who is already there to see a ball go dead? The PU would also have a hard time running in the opposite direction from a ball thrown in his direction. Now I can't see how a PU knew a bang-bang play was about to occur at 2B and how he felt he should hustle on over there to get the call right. I can't see why a BU would decide to go near a 1B coach in this situation.

Part II
Even if a player collides with the BU, PU taking runner to 2B has "covered BU's ask" written all over it. The BU must be standing too close to the action and not correctly reading a bad throw. If BU continues to mess the coverage, mess the bangor, and mess the coach's explanation; then only in private consultation would the PU provide a view of the play.

[Kevin Finnerty]

The area in which U1 is working has F4, F3, F1, the BR and the base coach to contend with. The PU has no one to contend with and a clear, straight shot, with an angle all the way to wherever he comes set.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by SAump

If BU and PU are both on the foul line, then both are the same distance away from 2B. Okay, so both are identical clones and "almost" the same distance away from a place near 2B.

So what? Distance is not the deciding factor.

Originally Posted by SAump

The overthrow is toward the PU. Who should follow the ball into the fence and the carrom towards the backstop behind the plate?

BU, since he's looking in that direction anyway.

Originally Posted by SAump

Who is already there to see a ball go dead? The PU would also have a hard time running in the opposite direction from a ball thrown in his direction.

BU has the same problem in your situation. Either way, if the ball caroms towards the backstop, the umpire covering second is going to have, at best, a peripheral look at the ball.

Originally Posted by SAump

Even if a player collides with the BU, PU taking runner to 2B has "covered BU's ask" written all over it.

Again, so what? Once the throw is botched or the collision occurs, everyone knows that standard coverage might be out the window.

Originally Posted by SAump

The BU must be standing too close to the action and not correctly reading a bad throw. If BU continues to mess the coverage, mess the bangor, and mess the coach's explanation

You're acting on a faulty premise that BU made a mistake.

Originally Posted by SAump

then only in private consultation would the PU provide a view of the play.

So, you advocate PU giving information from a lesser position in a more haphazard way.