Larsen's Perfect Game

[ASA/NYSSOBLUE]

Anybody else watch this on the new MLB channel? A couple of observations:

Pinelli had a BIG strike zone that day - a lot of Yankees wee making minor grpes about it, so Dale Mitchell really didn't have too much to complain about - besides, if it was MY last day ever working HP and had a chance to make history - STRRIIIIIIIKETHREEEEEEEEEE

Pinelli also seemed to be forever adjusting his mask - ether that its just the quality of the masks they had then, or again, the last game behind the plate thing took hold again - the thing was probably 15 years old....

Lots of good hustle by all concerned - Dusty Bogess was right on top of a great shoestring catch Snider made, and there almost always two sets of eyes on the foul pole calls...


One thing that is interesting s that, even tough there were six umps workng, only four of them rotated - the two outfield umps (Tom Gorman and Ed Runge, btw) stayed in the outfiekd for the Series...Runge was only in his second year!

[greymule]

I hope that game is released on DVD. I love watching the full games instead of just the "highlights."

I think some sportswriters voted it (on one of the many such lists) baseball's third-greatest "moment," behind the homers by Thomson in 1951 and Mazeroski in 1960.

The only living players from that game are Larsen, Berra, Carey, McDougald, and Snider.

Mantle claimed that he was never more nervous that late in that game.

Without looking it up, name the eight (future) Hall-of-Famers who played.

I suspect it was the only perfect game thrown by someone who, before the game, didn't know there was such a thing as a perfect game.

[Kevin Finnerty]

I don't need to look them up, nor did I need to look them up last night during the game when the subject came up. And I won't spoil it for everybody by rattling them all off. But a couple beside the obvious guys: Phil Rizzuto hung on to play for the '56 Yanks, as did Enos Slaughter.

It's cool that with all those Hall of Famers playing that both managers were also Hall of Famers. AND, Hall of Fame manager Dick Williams played on the Dodgers that year.

Among the other non-HOF managerial talent on those two clubs: Billy Martin, Don Zimmer, Hank Bauer, Roger Craig and of course, Gil Hodges (who should be in the Hall). They all won pennants except Zimmer, who won the East with the Cubs one year. Yogi was also a pennant winning manager.

That was some amazingly interesting sidebar stuff to outshine and Larsen did it.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by greymule

I suspect it was the only perfect game thrown by someone who, before the game, didn't know there was such a thing as a perfect game.

The perfect game was a rare feat that was essentially popularized by Larsen's. Several followed in the ensuing years, and by then everybody knew what it was. But when Larsen did it, it wasn't distinguished from a mere no-hitter by that many. I'll bet that the guy who threw the one in 1922 that preceded Larsen's--an otherwise unknown and the only rookie ever to throw one--didn't know what it was either. In fact, I'm certain that he didn't.

Larsen put it on the radar.

[greymule]

Phil Rizzuto did not play in that game. He played his last game in August 1956.

For years I had assumed that Hodges was in the Hall of Fame, but of course he's not. If Hodges makes it (lifetime .273), and with Arky Vaughn, Phil Rizzuto, and Harmon Killebrew there, you could make a case for Bauer (.277 lifetime and a fine clutch player). Actually, if you're enshrining everybody above "pretty good," then Dale Mitchell belongs there too (.312 lifetime).

[ASA/NYSSOBLUE]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

I don't need to look them up, nor did I need to look them up last night during the game when the subject came up. And I won't spoil it for everybody by rattling them all off. But a couple beside the obvious guys: Phil Rizzuto hung on to play for the '56 Yanks, as did Enos Slaughter.

It's cool that with all those Hall of Famers playing that both managers were also Hall of Famers. AND, Hall of Fame manager Dick Williams played on the Dodgers that year.

Among the other non-HOF managerial talent on those two clubs: Billy Martin, Don Zimmer, Hank Bauer, Roger Craig and of course, Gil Hodges (who should be in the Hall). They all won pennants except Zimmer, who won the East with the Cubs one year. Yogi was also a pennant winning manager.

That was some amazingly interesting sidebar stuff to outshine and Larsen did it.

And 16 year old Joe Torre was in the left field stands....another HOF'r some day

and lets not forget two HOF announcers - Mel Allen and Vin Scully...ooops - THREE - the radio broadcast was done by Bob Wolff..

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by greymule

Phil Rizzuto did not play in that game. He played his last game in August 1956.

For years I had assumed that Hodges was in the Hall of Fame, but of course he's not. If Hodges makes it (lifetime .273), and with Arky Vaughn, Phil Rizzuto, and Harmon Killebrew there, you could make a case for Bauer (.277 lifetime and a fine clutch player). Actually, if you're enshrining everybody above "pretty good," then Dale Mitchell belongs there too (.312 lifetime).

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

Phil Rizzuto hung on to play for the '56 Yanks, as did Enos Slaughter.

That was my exact quote. I didn't say that Rizzuto played in that game, but that he played for the club that year, as did Slaughter. Williams played for the Dodgers that year , also. I never said he played in that game, either.

Regarding the Hall of Fame: Batting averages have little to do with anything when it comes to Hall of Fame voting or candidacy. In fact, they have virtually nothing to do with it when used in a comparison like that. "Pretty Good"? Harmon Killebrew hit 573 home runs, which was second all time in the A.L to Babe Ruth when he retired. Killebrew had six home run crowns, eight 40-homer seasons and nine 100-RBI seasons. He was also an MVP. Pretty good, huh? His low average is inconsequential when compared to some others without anything close to Killebrew's production. You didn't give it much thought when you put his name in there based on batting average.

Gil Hodges played Gold Glove caliber defense and had seven consecutive 100-plus RBI seasons and a 98-RBI season and for a Brooklyn club that won six pennants. He also had a pair of 40-homer seasons and four others of 30 or more. He was one of the game's true gentlemen and one of its most respected leaders. Then there's the little matter of winning a World Series as manager of the Amazin' Mets.

Hodges is not in the Hall, because Ted Williams led a contingent of veterans committee voters to stop electing any 50s era Dodgers after Pee Wee Reese and Duke Snider got in. Hodges is not an overwhelming choice, but with Orlando Cepeda and Tony Perez in there, Hodges, the 50s version of Perez (but with better hands) should be in there too.

Bill Mazeroski had over 100 double plays a year. He may have been the best defensive second baseman ever. That's why he's in the Hall--despite his .260 batting average.

[gordon30307]

Bill Mazeroski had over 100 double plays a year. He may have been the best defensive second baseman ever. That's why he's in the Hall--despite his .260 batting average.[/QUOTE]

Did you consult with Joe Morgan before making such a statement?????????

[Kevin Finnerty]

I hear you. Joe's opinion of his own career is so glowing, he was able to shamelessly schmooze his way in on the first ballot, making him the least productive first-ballot Hall of Famer in history.

Morgan's arm was Little League compared to Mazeroski's. It's hard to compare Morgan to complete defensive second basemen like Maz or Sandberg or Alomar or Frank White, because if he fielded a ball going to his right, he couldn't record an out. Sparky Anderson said, "We always preferred to have Davey [Concepcion] take those balls."

[dash_riprock]

Maz's D certainly earns him a place in the Hall. I think he had the fastest pivot ever - something like 0.6 seconds from receiving the throw to releasing the ball. And a sure way to get injured was to try and take him out on a DP. It was like sliding into a building.

(From a lifelong Yanks fan who believes the Baseball Hall of Fame is misnamed through exclusion, from it's membership, of the most prolific hitter in the history of the game.)

[gordon30307]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

Maz's D certainly earns him a place in the Hall. I think he had the fastest pivot ever - something like 0.6 seconds from receiving the throw to releasing the ball. And a sure way to get injured was to try and take him out on a DP. It was like sliding into a building.

(From a lifelong Yanks fan who believes the Baseball Hall of Fame is misnamed through exclusion, from it's membership, of the most prolific hitter in the history of the game.)

He was a good player but I think he got in for hitting one of the most famous walk off homers ever. Pete Rose a great player but a complete failure as a human being. Hard to come up with one redeeming quality.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

Maz's D certainly earns him a place in the Hall. I think he had the fastest pivot ever - something like 0.6 seconds from receiving the throw to releasing the ball. And a sure way to get injured was to try and take him out on a DP. It was like sliding into a building.

(From a lifelong Yanks fan who believes the Baseball Hall of Fame is misnamed through exclusion, from it's membership, of the most prolific hitter in the history of the game.)

Originally Posted by gordon30307

He was a good player but I think he got in for hitting one of the most famous walk off homers ever. Pete Rose a great player but a complete failure as a human being. Hard to come up with one redeeming quality.

I thought he meant Shoeless Joe Jackson.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by gordon30307

He was a good player but I think he got in for hitting one of the most famous walk off homers ever. Pete Rose a great player but a complete failure as a human being. Hard to come up with one redeeming quality.

I have talked to many Hall of Fame voters, and that was not the case at all. In fact, he was ignored for the longest time by the writers and eventually got in with a bare veterans committee vote. And it was because he was the best defensive second baseman any of those guys ever saw.

[Dave Reed]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

That was my exact quote. I didn't say that Rizzuto played in that game, but that he played for the club that year, as did Slaughter.

C'mon now, be honest: we can see what you wrote. Here's the sequence:

greymule wrote: "Without looking it up, name the eight (future) Hall-of-Famers who played."

KF wrote: "I don't need to look them up, nor did I need to look them up last night during the game when the subject came up. And I won't spoil it for everybody by rattling them all off. But a couple beside the obvious guys: Phil Rizzuto hung on to play for the '56 Yanks, as did Enos Slaughter. "

Maybe you didn't mean to say Rizzuto and Slaughter played in the game, but it is what you wrote. Claiming a partial quote as your exact quote, and distorting thereby the meaning is, well, spinning.

By the way, I agree with your comment that the notion of a perfect game wasn't widely known at that time. I listened to that game over the speaker system at my grade school (don't think that would happen today!), and until the reading the next morning's paper, we just thought it was a (mere) no-hitter.

[Kevin Finnerty]

I wasn't naming the players, I was adding other guys like Rizzuto and Williams and Slaughter who were with their respective clubs that year. I begged off listing all the players, and tried to add some interesting sidebar by noting that Rizzuto and Slaughter also were on the club that year.

And my exact quote said just that: "Phil Rizzuto hung on to play for the '56 Yanks, as did Enos Slaughter." Play for the '56 Yanks. Okay?

You must have too little to do, there, Dave, that you have to twist my words and trash my explanation.