Larsen's Perfect Game

[SanDiegoSteve]

I hung on to be born that year...does that count for anything?

[Kevin Finnerty]

Maybe it's just a coincidence, but my mom later said that I kicked a lot that month. I guess it was the first indication that I was going to be a baseball guy.

[greymule]

Slaughter did play in Larsen's perfect game. That's why I was confused about the mention of Rizzuto.

But I was wrong about 8 HOF players. It was 7. I looked up Maglie a while back and remembered erroneously that he was in the HOF. Of course, I could claim that by saying "future" Hall-of-Famers, I was including Hodges on the assumption that he'll eventually make it. And I'd take Furillo and Bauer ahead of some guys who are in.

HOF in bold:

Maglie Campanella Hodges Gilliam Robinson Reese Amoros Snider Furillo Mitchell

Larsen Berra Collins Martin Carey McDougald Slaughter Mantle Bauer

I gave up on HOF arguments long ago. The criteria for entry are not clear enough. (Does a good, solid—but hardly great—pitcher get in if his arm hangs in there for 18 years and he wins 220 games? How low can an infielder hit and still make it? If being a scumbag can keep you out, can being a swell guy nudge you in?)

We can all name our choice of guys who are in but shouldn't be and guys who aren't in but should be. And we're all aware that there are players who are better than their stats, and players not as good as their stats.

Also, it's obvious that politics has played a significant part with regard to the borderline players.

I enjoy more trying to put together first, second, third team All-Time All Stars (who would your three outfielders be?), even though it's hard to compare players across eras.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by greymule

Slaughter did play in Larsen's perfect game. That's why I was confused about the mention of Rizzuto.

But I was wrong about 8 HOF players. It was 7. I looked up Maglie a while back and remembered erroneously that he was in the HOF. Of course, I could claim that by saying "future" Hall-of-Famers, I was including Hodges on the assumption that he'll eventually make it. And I'd take Furillo and Bauer ahead of some guys who are in.

HOF in bold:

Maglie Campanella Hodges Gilliam Robinson Reese Amoros Snider Furillo Mitchell

Larsen Berra Collins Martin Carey McDougald Slaughter Mantle Bauer

I gave up on HOF arguments long ago. The criteria for entry are not clear enough. (Does a good, solid—but hardly great—pitcher get in if his arm hangs in there for 18 years and he wins 220 games? How low can an infielder hit and still make it? If being a scumbag can keep you out, can being a swell guy nudge you in?)

We can all name our choice of guys who are in but shouldn't be and guys who aren't in but should be. And we're all aware that there are players who are better than their stats, and players not as good as their stats.

Also, it's obvious that politics has played a significant part with regard to the borderline players.

I enjoy more trying to put together first, second, third team All-Time All Stars (who would your three outfielders be?), even though it's hard to compare players across eras.

GREAT post!

"Does a good, solid—but hardly great—pitcher get in if his arm hangs in there for 18 years and he wins 220 games?"

No. You just described Jerry Reuss. And as cool and steady as he was, he wasn't a Hall of Famer.

"How low can an infielder hit and still make it?"

Joe Morgan batted .271 with a pair of .300 seasons, a lone 100 RBI season and one of the worst throwing arms in memory and he went in on the first ballot. Mazeroski at .260, and Ozzie at .262 were irrelevant numbers because they were brilliant defensively. (Watch for Omar Vizquel, if he ever retires. He's in there, too.) Catcher Ray Schalk at .253 with no power is the very lowest average in the entire Hall, but Schalk was a legendary leader, and that got him in.

"If being a scumbag can keep you out, can being a swell guy nudge you in?"

You just described borderline guys Ron Santo and Gil Hodges, and yes, in my opinion, their being swell guys nudges them in, or should have by now. Being a prlck has kept borderline guy Jim Rice out. And he wasn't a prlck, but Andre Dawson's not being in could be attributable to his being cool toward writers. And that's a sin. If it's the writers voting, being a good guy to the writers helps (wait until you see how high a percentage of votes Rickey Henderson gets... 95-98 percent), and to the veterans, being a stellar teammate and good guy to your peers helps (Phil Rizzuto and Pee Wee Reese). Just not enough for Hodges or Santo, but enough for Nellie Fox and Bill Mazeroski.

I'll tell you one thing, we are watching a hell of a lot of future Hall of Famers right now.

Ironic occasion: My father, son and I attended a Padres-Rangers interleague game a half dozen years back. In that game, we saw six future Hall of Famers: Pudge Rodriguez, Alex Rodriguez, Rafael Palmeiro (so we thought then), Rickey Henderson, Tony Gwynn (pinch-hitter, who lined a single and left to a standing O) and Trevor Hoffman (who should go once the closers start getting in). And that six Hall of Famer game was between two last place teams.

[Dave Reed]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

You must have too little to do, there, Dave, that you have to twist my words and trash my explanation.

I do plead guilty to trashing your explanation, but twisting your words? By quoting you?

And I do have plenty to do; I'm just avoiding it.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by Dave Reed

I do plead guilty to trashing your explanation, but twisting your words? By quoting you?

And I do have plenty to do; I'm just avoiding it.

You stuck a chord, there.