Hijacked from Basketball Board... with a baseball twist

[CajunNewBlue]

If its HS and below... coach is gone and paperwork is filed to both the state and the AD.. IMHO its your/ours (as an official) OBLIGATION to make sure this happens.
Especially if its HS, the coach is a TEACHER acting in a coaching capacity (most times, unless they are CECP) and using profanity is inexcusable no matter where they are in my jurisdiction. (sight and sound) and on school board property.
But, y'all keep ignoring it (those of you that do)... the world seems to be a better place for it.
Don't get me wrong I can f*cking cuss with the best of them, when im kicking back with the adults.... drinking an adult beverage and discussing the days game.
But, when i'm on/near/around the field, I dress professionally, I act professionally and I talk/communicate professionally.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by CajunNewBlue

If its HS and below... coach is gone and paperwork is filed to both the state and the AD.. IMHO its your/ours (as an official) OBLIGATION to make sure this happens.
Especially if its HS, the coach is a TEACHER acting in a coaching capacity (most times, unless they are CECP) and using profanity is inexcusable no matter where they are in my jurisdiction. (sight and sound) and on school board property.
But, y'all keep ignoring it (those of you that do)... the world seems to be a better place for it.
Don't get me wrong I can f*cking cuss with the best of them, when im kicking back with the adults.... drinking an adult beverage and discussing the days game.
But, when i'm on/near/around the field, I dress professionally, I act professionally and I talk/communicate professionally.

I never said ignore it. I said store it and beware of the guy and warn others.

I wouldn't tolerate a single peep out of a guy like that in public, but what he says in private is none of my business, if it is said in a locker room. But if I thought I heard that he was harming a young person, he would be dealing with me before any police, parent or other official. And when the police did come, they would be providing him relief from me.

Cussing coaches are a part of sports and life. Baseball's a little more refined than football, but it's still part of it and will remain part of it. Baseball makes young men grow up sooner, like anything that requires such toughness. Hard-nosed and profane coaches are part of that toughening.

I, for one, cuss in everyday life--almost always needlessly. But I virtually never cussed as a coach (youth or adult), nor did I ever browbeat or demean a young person. I just don't have a need to. And I never cuss as an umpire. (Your last line says it all.) But, let's be real. It happens, and it is usually not really harming anyone. It shouldn't start until college or the minors, but it also exists in high school.

(The earlier Little League analogy gets sillier by the moment.)

[PeteBooth]

[

QUOTE=Kevin Finnerty;562769]I never said ignore it. I said store it and beware of the guy and warn others.

I wouldn't tolerate a single peep out of a guy like that in public, but what he says in private is none of my business, if it is said in a locker room.

Kevin IMO you are missing the point

This is HS and at least from my experience HS Coaches are also TEACHERS.

Where do you draw the line?

Suppose you are working with an Afro American official, Asian official, Latin official etc. and the coach utters racial slurs about the official to his players

OR

This Coach makes a racial slur directly to one of his players.

I could go on and on

In General yes What's said in the locker-room stays in the locker-room but there is a limit

If it's "normal type cussing" no Problem

What's normal type cussing

"Hey Joe can you get the lead out of your a** when running to first base" or something along those lines.


Pete Booth

[Kevin Finnerty]

Pete, this is obviously a complex issue, because I am normally one of the small percentage who speak up and/or stand up to anyone who I see victimizing a person or animal. I don't care what or who they are, they get a lesson.

But as an umpire, I can't penalize a guy and his players because I know he's a slimeball. I am going to possibly umpire a game or two this year for a school that has hired a coach that I have known for 12 years, and know for certain that he is a vile, wife-beating, child-beating, home-wrecking, player-assaulting coward a------. But I am going to walk out onto the field, and give his and his opponents' players and followers a safe, fair, respectful game like I always strive to give, irrespective of how tainted some coach is.

Now, in his particular case, when he turned up at that school, several of us notified the school's officials of the unique background of the guy they're hiring. But he's a the friend of a major league playing millionaire kid and his dad who rebuilt the school's ballpark, so that connection makes everything irrelevant to the school.

The greatest sin that is committed on the baseball playing young people of this nation is the way they go about picking coaches. Some of the coaches I have seen should be nowhere near the game, and others, like the guy I just described, should be nowhere near our young people. (In his case, he shouldn't even be around his own kids.) But you know what, Pete? The vast majority of young men actually rise above and tune out the B.S. from the worst of the worst that are screaming in their ear. I know it sounds harsh, but it's really true.

And this whole thing has to change. I have done and continue to do more than my part to change it where I live, because I love the game and I want it to go right for as many people as I can reach, but until real baseball men are coaching in the majority of our schools and leagues, this improper conduct and the mediocre baseball that results from it is bound to continue. It's sad, and MLB's half-hearted recognition of it is sinful.

[bobbybanaduck]

i expereinced something like this a few years back working indy ball. after the game the manager went on a tirade in his locker room about my partner. we shared a wall with them that was unfinished at the top. found out from one of the players the next day that he had pulled a chair over so he could get as close to the gap at the top of the wall as possible to yell into our room. sweeeeeeet.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Of all the things you've said, this one is the most wrong. A Little League game is not a college game and a LL coach yelling at/around 10 year olds like this would be much different than a college coach.

Okay, the game is not the game in Little League. You changed the subject in order to tell me I'm wrong. Nice twist. No need to strain yourself like that just to start an argument.

We were obviously talking about high school and college, which is where the codes apply. If you want to discuss the topic and differ, fine.

Locker Room. That's the key, here. Locker Room.

I think we all agree that Little League and real baseball are two different worlds and profanity and agitation at the LL level is intolerable.

But, that's not the subject here.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

I think we all agree that Little League and real baseball are two different worlds and profanity and agitation at the LL level is intolerable.

Many of us would argue that high school baseball and real baseball are two different worlds also. Profanity at the high school level is certainly not tolerated here, under any circumstance. When I was a probationary umpire back in the 80s, I told a high school coach who was arguing a call at second base that something or other was "bull****, and you know it." I got my as$ in a wringer over it and was warned by the board of directors for "swearing."

The point is that the high school coach is there to set an example for the young men he coaches to follow. Any ranting and raving with profanity involved needs to be reported. That coach knew exactly what he was doing, and that the umpires could hear every word. It is not eavesdropping when you are within earshot of an easily audible conversation.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Many of us would argue that high school baseball and real baseball are two different worlds also.

IAWTP. The high school diamond is an extension of the classroom. I'd love to see a math teacher use language like this in the classroom and not get fired.

[w_sohl]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

What goes on in the locker room is none of our business! If you want to inform your assignor and/or "red line" this school, fine. But you have no business saying anything to anyone else about this. There is no "rule" for this, it is just common courtesy - just like when you are with your buddies, you yap and curse about a coach.

sorry if I'm repeating someone elses comments.

Ozzy, you're full of it if you think this is true. Do you honestly think that if the coach overheard you through paper thin walls making despariging comments about him and his team that he wouldn't make his first phone call to your assignor? What happens in the locker room stays in the locker room till everyone leaves the locker room. Then it is fair game. I might not penalize the coach, but I sure as hell am going to let him know I'm not a fool and I know what is going on. In the case of him telling a player to take out another player, as soon as we get back to the field, I'm letting him know that if any of his players take anyone out the rest of this game not only will that player be ejected, but he can go warm the bus up.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by w_sohl

sorry if I'm repeating someone elses comments.

Ozzy, you're full of it if you think this is true. Do you honestly think that if the coach overheard you through paper thin walls making despariging comments about him and his team that he wouldn't make his first phone call to your assignor? What happens in the locker room stays in the locker room till everyone leaves the locker room. Then it is fair game. I might not penalize the coach, but I sure as hell am going to let him know I'm not a fool and I know what is going on. In the case of him telling a player to take out another player, as soon as we get back to the field, I'm letting him know that if any of his players take anyone out the rest of this game not only will that player be ejected, but he can go warm the bus up.

With all due respect, baseball has been around a long time, and so has the locker room code. What is said there--however brazenly or childishly--stays there ... period. To act on it publicly is a breach ... period. It's how baseball works ... period. It's how it must work.

Your words: "What happens in the locker room stays in the locker room till everyone leaves the locker room. Then it is fair game." The previous quote, in particular, shows a pronounced level of baseball naiveté on your part. Not Ozzy nor I wrote the code, we're just quoting from it. You should learn it.

How to handle the threat of malicious contact is a separate issue that you combined with the fruits of locker room issue.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by w_sohl

sorry if I'm repeating someone elses comments.

Ozzy, you're full of it if you think this is true. Do you honestly think that if the coach overheard you through paper thin walls making despariging comments about him and his team that he wouldn't make his first phone call to your assignor? What happens in the locker room stays in the locker room till everyone leaves the locker room. Then it is fair game. I might not penalize the coach, but I sure as hell am going to let him know I'm not a fool and I know what is going on. In the case of him telling a player to take out another player, as soon as we get back to the field, I'm letting him know that if any of his players take anyone out the rest of this game not only will that player be ejected, but he can go warm the bus up.

Well, my friend, if you pulled something like this on my crew, you would not be on the crew any longer. And before you start to become sanctimonious, I know a lot of FED and NCAA Basketball officials that would have you tossed off their crew, also. What you hear off the court or the field is not to be taken to the court or field. I agree that if you hear a coach telling his players to do something against safety rules, you should make note of it, mentally! You should be on the lookout during the game and if such an infraction occurs, you should take immediate and appropriate action. But to openly say something to a coach about something he said in the locker room (his locker room) is just wrong, period!

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

What you hear off the court or the field is not to be taken to the court or field.

10.4.1 SITUATION B: At halftime, as the teams, coaches, and officials are making their way through a hallway to the dressing room, a Team A member verbally abuses one of the officials. RULING: A technical foul is charged to the team member and is also charged indirectly to the head coach. During intermission all team members are bench personnel and are penalized accordingly. If the conduct is flagrant, the team member shall be disqualified.

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by LDUB

10.4.1 SITUATION B: At halftime, as the teams, coaches, and officials are making their way through a hallway to the dressing room, a Team A member verbally abuses one of the officials. RULING: A technical foul is charged to the team member and is also charged indirectly to the head coach. During intermission all team members are bench personnel and are penalized accordingly. If the conduct is flagrant, the team member shall be disqualified.

This situation adresses conduct directed directly at an official, in person, by a player. This is different from the OP which dicusses a conversation that is overheard.

Not the same animal.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Well, my friend, if you pulled something like this on my crew, you would not be on the crew any longer. And before you start to become sanctimonious, I know a lot of FED and NCAA Basketball officials that would have you tossed off their crew, also.

I am sorry this is a little late to comment on this. But there is not such thing as a "Crew" that you could throw someone off of. That just does not take place in basketball. We work with too many different people. I do get the point.

Peace

[Cub42]

SS, I was directing my post to some of the officials without very much experience handling situations, and those who haven't work above HS Level