Hijacked from Basketball Board... with a baseball twist

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

The game is the game, irrespective of everything

Of all the things you've said, this one is the most wrong. A Little League game is not a college game and a LL coach yelling at/around 10 year olds like this would be much different than a college coach.

[CajunNewBlue]

If its HS and below... coach is gone and paperwork is filed to both the state and the AD.. IMHO its your/ours (as an official) OBLIGATION to make sure this happens.
Especially if its HS, the coach is a TEACHER acting in a coaching capacity (most times, unless they are CECP) and using profanity is inexcusable no matter where they are in my jurisdiction. (sight and sound) and on school board property.
But, y'all keep ignoring it (those of you that do)... the world seems to be a better place for it.
Don't get me wrong I can f*cking cuss with the best of them, when im kicking back with the adults.... drinking an adult beverage and discussing the days game.
But, when i'm on/near/around the field, I dress professionally, I act professionally and I talk/communicate professionally.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by CajunNewBlue

If its HS and below... coach is gone and paperwork is filed to both the state and the AD.. IMHO its your/ours (as an official) OBLIGATION to make sure this happens.
Especially if its HS, the coach is a TEACHER acting in a coaching capacity (most times, unless they are CECP) and using profanity is inexcusable no matter where they are in my jurisdiction. (sight and sound) and on school board property.
But, y'all keep ignoring it (those of you that do)... the world seems to be a better place for it.
Don't get me wrong I can f*cking cuss with the best of them, when im kicking back with the adults.... drinking an adult beverage and discussing the days game.
But, when i'm on/near/around the field, I dress professionally, I act professionally and I talk/communicate professionally.

I never said ignore it. I said store it and beware of the guy and warn others.

I wouldn't tolerate a single peep out of a guy like that in public, but what he says in private is none of my business, if it is said in a locker room. But if I thought I heard that he was harming a young person, he would be dealing with me before any police, parent or other official. And when the police did come, they would be providing him relief from me.

Cussing coaches are a part of sports and life. Baseball's a little more refined than football, but it's still part of it and will remain part of it. Baseball makes young men grow up sooner, like anything that requires such toughness. Hard-nosed and profane coaches are part of that toughening.

I, for one, cuss in everyday life--almost always needlessly. But I virtually never cussed as a coach (youth or adult), nor did I ever browbeat or demean a young person. I just don't have a need to. And I never cuss as an umpire. (Your last line says it all.) But, let's be real. It happens, and it is usually not really harming anyone. It shouldn't start until college or the minors, but it also exists in high school.

(The earlier Little League analogy gets sillier by the moment.)

[PeteBooth]

[

QUOTE=Kevin Finnerty;562769]I never said ignore it. I said store it and beware of the guy and warn others.

I wouldn't tolerate a single peep out of a guy like that in public, but what he says in private is none of my business, if it is said in a locker room.

Kevin IMO you are missing the point

This is HS and at least from my experience HS Coaches are also TEACHERS.

Where do you draw the line?

Suppose you are working with an Afro American official, Asian official, Latin official etc. and the coach utters racial slurs about the official to his players

OR

This Coach makes a racial slur directly to one of his players.

I could go on and on

In General yes What's said in the locker-room stays in the locker-room but there is a limit

If it's "normal type cussing" no Problem

What's normal type cussing

"Hey Joe can you get the lead out of your a** when running to first base" or something along those lines.


Pete Booth

[Cub42]

First, HS and below, and to a certain extent college baseball is not the same game as Pro Ball. There are safety and sportsmanship rules used at those levels that do not apply to the pro game. In the pro game there are certain situations where we let the players settle things, and ways that we communicate that are not available to umpires in non pro games. That being said, trying to take action on information you heard while not in the same room might be difficult to rally support for. As for the comments about the Umpiring crew, keep that in mind and remember that when dealing with this rat. The language part is for the players/school admin/parents to handle. And here is why: If the players don't go to there parents or AD, more than likely they will keep quiet or deny it when questioned. On the field behavior is part of your jurisdiction.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Pete, this is obviously a complex issue, because I am normally one of the small percentage who speak up and/or stand up to anyone who I see victimizing a person or animal. I don't care what or who they are, they get a lesson.

But as an umpire, I can't penalize a guy and his players because I know he's a slimeball. I am going to possibly umpire a game or two this year for a school that has hired a coach that I have known for 12 years, and know for certain that he is a vile, wife-beating, child-beating, home-wrecking, player-assaulting coward a------. But I am going to walk out onto the field, and give his and his opponents' players and followers a safe, fair, respectful game like I always strive to give, irrespective of how tainted some coach is.

Now, in his particular case, when he turned up at that school, several of us notified the school's officials of the unique background of the guy they're hiring. But he's a the friend of a major league playing millionaire kid and his dad who rebuilt the school's ballpark, so that connection makes everything irrelevant to the school.

The greatest sin that is committed on the baseball playing young people of this nation is the way they go about picking coaches. Some of the coaches I have seen should be nowhere near the game, and others, like the guy I just described, should be nowhere near our young people. (In his case, he shouldn't even be around his own kids.) But you know what, Pete? The vast majority of young men actually rise above and tune out the B.S. from the worst of the worst that are screaming in their ear. I know it sounds harsh, but it's really true.

And this whole thing has to change. I have done and continue to do more than my part to change it where I live, because I love the game and I want it to go right for as many people as I can reach, but until real baseball men are coaching in the majority of our schools and leagues, this improper conduct and the mediocre baseball that results from it is bound to continue. It's sad, and MLB's half-hearted recognition of it is sinful.

[DG]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

But as an umpire, I can't penalize a guy and his players because I know he's a slimeball. I am going to possibly umpire a game or two this year for a school that has hired a coach that I have known for 12 years, and know for certain that he is a vile, wife-beating, child-beating, home-wrecking, player-assaulting coward a------. But I am going to walk out onto the field, and give his and his opponents' players and followers a safe, fair, respectful game like I always strive to give, irrespective of how tainted some coach is.

Now, in his particular case, when he turned up at that school, several of us notified the school's officials of the unique background of the guy they're hiring. But he's a the friend of a major league playing millionaire kid and his dad who rebuilt the school's ballpark, so that connection makes everything irrelevant to the school.

I find it impossible to believe that a school would hire such a guy as you describe, further impossible to believe that parents would allow their children to play for him and lastly, impossible to believe an umpire who knows all of this to be true and would ignore and umpire a game for this school.

this guy would get his a** whipped around here for showing his face, much less coaching.

[Kevin Finnerty]

I don't know where you live, but in Southern California, there are guys like him at several schools, and there is politics just as blatant as this at more than one school, and guys who are even more wildly abusive at many schools. There's a local JV guy who is the worst verbal abuser I have ever heard, and he's been at the same post for 20 years.

As for the coward I referred to: The guy whose place he took got implicated in drinking and weed smoking with some players. This is a major high school with several thousand students. If you can't believe it, then you should feel lucky to be free of it or free from the thought of it. I know the guy I spoke of in the community and even coached the son he once abused. His acts were fairly common knowledge. He abused his two sons right out of the game and then went to the local high school and sucked up to its most wealthy alumnus and that was it. Sorry you can't see it.

At another school, a former major leaguer rebuilt the school himself at $1 million-plus, and took over the program solely based on that. They just handed it to him with zero experience, no college education, and no real coaching or communications skills. He was a very good player, but didn't know three things about coaching. He was horrible, but solely based on his rebuilding the park, he was handed the program at a major high school in a very affluent area.

the real world around here. It's disgraceful, but not impossible.

So you wouldn't accept the assignment? Maybe I won't either. Maybe I won't get it, but it's almost a sure thing that I will. If I do, I will make sure that his players get the game they deserve, and not the one their coward coach deserves.

[Kevin Finnerty]

This is what I heard a coach scream at a kid while he got lit up: "You deserve to get knocked around like that! And I'm gonna' leave you out there to die!"

His father objected loudly to that kind of treatment. The coach said, "Get lost and take your pu$$y son with you!"

Only then did the UIC put him in the dugout and muzzle him. I begged God for him to open his mouth, so I could toss him, and he did and I did.

I went through all the channels you described, rather than meet him at his car and ask him what he has to say to me, like an uncivilized amateur might. That guy is still screaming at kids like that four years later as he will four years from now.

"You're killing this team!" ... "Can't you field a ground ball? Your sister can!" ... "You guys deserve to get killed. You stink!"

Those are some of his classics. JV coach at the school where we have our association meetings.

[CajunNewBlue]

well regarding the "crazy-a$$ed coaches you guys mention in the previous posts.... let me know where and when. I will gladly do his games. of course the mileage might be a little costly.

I do believe/I know they have coaches/dads/fans, who do and say the things mentioned. handle them accordingly, IMHO i use this rule.... if they say/do something that shocks me, I must act accordingly.... if they say/do something that doesn't shock me, I also must act accordingly.... its a judgment thing.

Happy New Years Y'all.. peace

[Cub42]

KF, one question. With this H/C's reputation and his on field behavior, how does he continue to be approved by the league/school? More puzzling to me is that parents would allow their kids to play on his team. I would think there would be a revolt by the parents who witness this treatment of their kids. I would offer this bit of advice to you on the subject of officiating games where you have a personal relationship with any of the participants. Perception becomes Reality.

[bobbybanaduck]

i expereinced something like this a few years back working indy ball. after the game the manager went on a tirade in his locker room about my partner. we shared a wall with them that was unfinished at the top. found out from one of the players the next day that he had pulled a chair over so he could get as close to the gap at the top of the wall as possible to yell into our room. sweeeeeeet.

[TussAgee11]

Originally Posted by bobbybanaduck

i expereinced something like this a few years back working indy ball. after the game the manager went on a tirade in his locker room about my partner. we shared a wall with them that was unfinished at the top. found out from one of the players the next day that he had pulled a chair over so he could get as close to the gap at the top of the wall as possible to yell into our room. sweeeeeeet.

And what did you do the next day (assuming the teams were still in town...)?

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Of all the things you've said, this one is the most wrong. A Little League game is not a college game and a LL coach yelling at/around 10 year olds like this would be much different than a college coach.

Okay, the game is not the game in Little League. You changed the subject in order to tell me I'm wrong. Nice twist. No need to strain yourself like that just to start an argument.

We were obviously talking about high school and college, which is where the codes apply. If you want to discuss the topic and differ, fine.

Locker Room. That's the key, here. Locker Room.

I think we all agree that Little League and real baseball are two different worlds and profanity and agitation at the LL level is intolerable.

But, that's not the subject here.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

I think we all agree that Little League and real baseball are two different worlds and profanity and agitation at the LL level is intolerable.

Many of us would argue that high school baseball and real baseball are two different worlds also. Profanity at the high school level is certainly not tolerated here, under any circumstance. When I was a probationary umpire back in the 80s, I told a high school coach who was arguing a call at second base that something or other was "bull****, and you know it." I got my as$ in a wringer over it and was warned by the board of directors for "swearing."

The point is that the high school coach is there to set an example for the young men he coaches to follow. Any ranting and raving with profanity involved needs to be reported. That coach knew exactly what he was doing, and that the umpires could hear every word. It is not eavesdropping when you are within earshot of an easily audible conversation.