Hijacked from Basketball Board... with a baseball twist

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

I think I pretty much outlined my position in my post, but for one thing, I disagree with the notion that hearing intentionally directed profanity through a known flimsy, thin-walled building, which is intended to piss off the umpire, is eavesdropping. This behavior should not be tolerated on the high school level. The kids are just that. Kids. So what they hear that language all the time. They shouldn't hear it from their adult supervisors. If you ignore the behavior, you only encourage it. The coach who pulled this asinine stunt should be at the very least reprimanded and warned to knock it off.

I neither ignore nor encourage such ill behavior. It's just that as the scenario was originally framed, what goes on inside gets stored and used at the first opportunity. I've done that. Or reported through all the right channels. I've done that. Or info was given to all others who are going to work the guy's games. I've done that. I've done whatever each situation called for according to my vastly experienced point of view. I can't eradicate bad coaching or abuse of young players. And I am not soft on it. I'll stand up to anyone over anything.

There's just a sanctity of the locker room issue that muddies this terribly.

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by umpduck11

So you would eject a coach before the act actually occured ?

My counter argument

Forget about the locker room meaning you are on the field.

There is play at the plate where-by you call a runner out.

The OM thinks that you blew an OBS call.

As his runner is coming back to the dug-out you hear

"Timmy, since they are not going to call OBS next time take out F2"

Now the act of taking out F2 has not yet occured so you are telling me that we at this point should do nothing?

I see no difference between the 2 situations.

The coach KNOWS that the walls are thin so if he does not want the umpires to hear the conversation there is a way he can do it, however, once we have information IMO we can not just "let it go" at least in the HS and below levels.

PRO ball is altogether different and the point is most likely moot because I do not think the umpire lounge is near the players.

There are many things that we as umpires do before the "act is actually performed"

Pete Booth

[Ump153]

[QUOTE=PeteBooth;563099]

My counter argument

Forget about the locker room meaning you are on the field.

There is play at the plate where-by you call a runner out.

The OM thinks that you blew an OBS call.

As his runner is coming back to the dug-out you hear

"Timmy, since they are not going to call OBS next time take out F2"

Now the act of taking out F2 has not yet occured so you are telling me that we at this point should do nothing?

Yes.

[bob jenkins]

[QUOTE=PeteBooth;563099]

Now the act of taking out F2 has not yet occured so you are telling me that we at this point should do nothing?

There's a whole range of actions between (and beyond) "do nothing" and "immediately eject."

[Tim C]

"Now the act of taking out F2 has not yet occured so you are telling me that we at this point should do nothing?"

Correct, we should do nothing. We should place the information in our data bank and watch what happens.

"There's just a sanctity of the locker room issue that muddies this terribly."

What you hear and see in a locker room stays there. Under the OP without the coach speaking directly to me nothing has happened. Again it simply goes in my data bank for use in the future if appropriate.

"The kids are just that. Kids. So what they hear that language all the time. They shouldn't hear it from their adult supervisors. If you ignore the behavior, you only encourage it. The coach who pulled this asinine stunt should be at the very least reprimanded and warned to knock it off."

At the high school level and above (which is all I can speak of) it is not my job or interest to play policeman over coaches. I do not care what coaches say to their assistant coaches, players or even fans. I have never, nor would I ever, comment to a coach about his language or actions to his shaving aged players.

Regards,

[Rich]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Many of us would argue that high school baseball and real baseball are two different worlds also.

IAWTP. The high school diamond is an extension of the classroom. I'd love to see a math teacher use language like this in the classroom and not get fired.

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Tim C

At the high school level and above (which is all I can speak of) it is not my job or interest to play policeman over coaches. I do not care what coaches say to their assistant coaches, players or even fans.

Tee as always I respect and value your opinion but one question

Suppose the coach was berating your son or instructing your son to perform a malicious act upon another player.

I realize for the most part you would not be officiating your sons game but the point is it could be a player who is close to you

Would your tune change?

Best Wishes to you and your family during this Holiday weekend.

Pete Booth

[Tim C]

"Suppose the coach was berating your son or instructing your son to perform a malicious act upon another player."

How I would react to something if I were a parent is far different than as a paid official.

This year I will be working two separate players that are sons of people I work with . . . that being said I would never consider placing my values on any coach/player relationship. It would be, in my opinion, pretentious and an unreasonable intervention in a relationship that is, by definition, none of my "freakin'" business.

Let me give you another apple to apple example:

Let's say the head coach of the Milleville High School "Flying Mint Farmers" walks down to the end of the dugout, slips behind the end wall and lights up a big Cubana.

I would call time and go to him and say: "Skip ya need to get rid of that and get back into the dugout."

He has two choices:

1) Do what I said and stay in the game or,

2) Be ejected for not following my clearly defined order.

I would not involve myself unless it was clearly defined that I had the responsibility, by rule, to do something.

Without trying to morph this thread farther: Profanity from coach to player can be handled. But something as simple as the OP or a coach telling a player something such as "steam roll the catcher" is far from my duty to handle DURING the game.

Respectfully,

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Tim C

At the high school level and above (which is all I can speak of) it is not my job or interest to play policeman over coaches. I do not care what coaches say to their assistant coaches, players or even fans. I have never, nor would I ever, comment to a coach about his language or actions to his shaving aged players.

My post did not mean to suggest commenting directly to the coach about his abusive language, it was meant to convey that I would report his actions to his superiors and the governing board of the local federation. I'm not going to tolerate a coach badmouthing the officials with the express intention of making sure the officials can hear what he says. That is baiting the umpires, and instead of taking the bait and respond directly, I suggest reporting the obnoxious behavior to the proper authorities.

Also, many high school players still have not reached shaving age, so I don't consider them "shaving aged." They are still impressionable youths (or "youtes"), and adults should be setting a good example. Swearing is not appropriate behavior in society, regardless of your belief system.

[Kevin Finnerty]

I have several stab wounds in my back, but never as much as a hangnail from delivering one. And I have had some pretty objectionable partners. The never-throw-the-partner-under-no-matter-what approach will get you universal respect in the long run.

[BigTex]

Last summer, college wood bat league--

Pickoff at second, R2 slides into F4's foot which was in front of the bag (not blocking the entire bag, probably about 1/4 of the bag). F4 tags runner, I call runner out. O head coach want OBS, I say no, the runner had a clear path to the bag, back and forth we go. As he walks away, he says to me, "I am going to tell them to come in spikes high next time."

I did not reply. I did not eject him there, but it did go in the memory bank. If someone had come in maliciously later in the game, I would have ejected the player, then the HC.

All we can do is call the things we see.

[CajunNewBlue]

Originally Posted by BigTex

Last summer, college wood bat league--

Pickoff at second, R2 slides into F4's foot which was in front of the bag (not blocking the entire bag, probably about 1/4 of the bag). F4 tags runner, I call runner out. O head coach want OBS, I say no, the runner had a clear path to the bag, back and forth we go. As he walks away, he says to me, "I am going to tell them to come in spikes high next time."

I did not reply. I did not eject him there, but it did go in the memory bank. If someone had come in maliciously later in the game, I would have ejected the player, then the HC.

All we can do is call the things we see.

How would you justify EJ'ing the HC? ... coz you know he's gonna say he NEVER told that player to MC the defense.... shoulda got him when he said it... IMHO

[JRutledge]

At least at the high school level (and lower level college), there is not much equivalent to what happens in basketball or football for that matter. There are no locker rooms to separate teams and officials.

I would say similarly to what I said on the basketball board. If the comments were said after the game, there is a way to handle that at the high school level. You can write up the coach and make others known about the behavior of such an adult (coach). If I have not yet left the field you can eject a coach until you leave the field. And if a coach wants to follow you after the game or comment after the game, then you still can write up a coach.

I had a coach one time follow me off the field in a college game, I wrote the coach up and moved on.

Peace

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by BigTex

Last summer, college wood bat league--

Pickoff at second, R2 slides into F4's foot which was in front of the bag (not blocking the entire bag, probably about 1/4 of the bag). F4 tags runner, I call runner out. O head coach want OBS, I say no, the runner had a clear path to the bag, back and forth we go. As he walks away, he says to me, "I am going to tell them to come in spikes high next time."

I did not reply. I did not eject him there, but it did go in the memory bank. If someone had come in maliciously later in the game, I would have ejected the player, then the HC.

All we can do is call the things we see.

I had a similar situation a couple of years ago I was the BU in a FED game between two rival HS's We were watching everything that day because we were warned by our assigner that there may be problems. HC for school "A" stated that he was going to have his people come in "with their nails up". I simply said, "You do what you feel you have to, John, but mark my words, if I eject one of your players for having their nails up, you are going with them, understood?". Happily, no one from school "A" ever came close to having their spikes in the air.

If a coach makes a threat to do something against the rules, you have to tell him right then and there that he is going to suffer the same fate as his player. You must also make sure that if you have to make that ejection, you follow it up with a report stating that you warned the coach after he made the statement.

[BigTex]

Originally Posted by CajunNewBlue

How would you justify EJ'ing the HC? ... coz you know he's gonna say he NEVER told that player to MC the defense.... shoulda got him when he said it... IMHO

I would write my report and include everything that happened. I don't really care what the HC says.

How are you going to justify a prophylactic ejection?