Asking BU on a Check Swing

[njdevs00cup]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

The ML mechanic (last I heard / read) is that BU is to come up with an immediate call without being asked only if he is going to rule a swing / strike. If he's going to support the "no call", then he waits to be asked.

I'm certainly NOT saying that SoCalBlue's partner used the "wrong" mechanic -- only pointing out that it's "different."

Whatever is used should be pre-gamed -- and recognize that it will be new to many participants, so expect some confusion / delay / missed mechanics the first several times it is (or should be) used.

Bob,

Assuming this situation is during a high school game, two man crews) wouldn't an immediate strike call (by BU, w/o appeal) on a left-handed batter be looking for problems?

[socalblue1]

Originally Posted by njdevs00cup

Bob,

Assuming this situation is during a high school game, two man crews) wouldn't an immediate strike call (by BU, w/o appeal) on a left-handed batter be looking for problems?

I'm not Bob, but why? Any umpire who is unable or unwilling to make a check swing call from any location on any batter should stop umpiring. Simple mjusdgement - did the batter offer at the pitch?

[Dave Reed]

Since there seems to some variance in opinion, here is what the MLBUM says:
8.7 "VOLUNTARY STRIKE"
In the situation where the third strike eludes the catcher on a half-swing and the batter-runner is entitled to run to first base, the appeal should be made to the base umpire instantly (without waiting for a request from the defense); but even if the appeal is not instant, the appropriate base umpire should immediately and voluntarily make a call of strike IF the base umpire is going to reverse the plate umpire's call. This will give the batter the immediate opportunity to run.

[Bolding, caps, and quotation marks copied from MLBUM.]

[PeteBooth]

Dave that's what the manual says but in all my years of watching PRO ball I have yet to see a BU ON HIS OWN make a call of strike on the play presented.

I know the Doug Eddings play in the ACLS years back was a little different but no other umpire "piped-up" during that fiasco.

It's like many things in life - meaning there is a manual and then there is actual practice.

Pete Booth

[Dave Reed]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

Dave that's what the manual says but in all my years of watching PRO ball I have yet to see a BU ON HIS OWN make a call of strike on the play presented.

Unless you are very different than most people (even umpires) you wouldn't be looking at BU on a checked swing uncaught third strike. That's not where the action or the ball is. And if you are dependent on TV to show you a volunteer call by BU, you'll never see it.

Eddings? You mean with A. J. Piersynski getting to first? Eddings called a strike immediately, behind the plate. That's more than a little different. Why do you think the BU should have piped up?

I don't know how long this ruling has been in the book, but it's not very many years. I expect recent rulings to be more strictly followed than old ones, so I expect that BU usually does, in practice, make the call.

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by Dave Reed

Unless you are very different than most people (even umpires) you wouldn't be looking at BU on a checked swing uncaught third strike. That's not where the action or the ball is. And if you are dependent on TV to show you a volunteer call by BU, you'll never see it.

Eddings? You mean with A. J. Piersynski getting to first? Eddings called a strike immediately, behind the plate. That's more than a little different. Why do you think the BU should have piped up?

I don't know how long this ruling has been in the book, but it's not very many years. I expect recent rulings to be more strictly followed than old ones, so I expect that BU usually does, in practice, make the call.

I was reading through the MLBUM (2007) last night and came across the "Voluntary Strike" provision on strike three. Umps are instructed on an appealable third strike to immediately signal the "yes he went" mechanic w/o even being asked by PU if PU has called "ball" so the B/R knows to run right away

I kind of like that provision/mechanic...even though it contradicts other aspects of the rule interps that state that the players/coaches are responsible for knowing certain rules/scenarios..for example an IFF inadvertently called by umpires in an incorrect situation or an IFF not called in a correct situation.

Are other associations adopting this Voluntary Strike mechanic in other rule sets?

[Tim C]

As I have noted on this (and other umpire sites):

Any umpire that intones that an umpire working "inside" cannot call a checked/unchecked swing either does not understand the rule or does not have enough guts to make the call.

Same goes for the times when, in the two umpire system, that an umpire is not in the "open" side of the hitter.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Tim C

As I have noted on this (and other umpire sites):

Any umpire that intones that an umpire working "inside" cannot call a checked/unchecked swing either does not understand the rule or does not have enough guts to make the call.

Same goes for the times when, in the two umpire system, that an umpire is not in the "open" side of the hitter.

Amen! This should be the final word on this particular subject, again.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by njdevs00cup

Bob,

Assuming this situation is during a high school game, two man crews) wouldn't an immediate strike call (by BU, w/o appeal) on a left-handed batter be looking for problems?

If BU is going to "call it later" then he's better off "calling it now."

[njdevs00cup]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

If BU is going to "call it later" then he's better off "calling it now."

Bob,

I can see this being an issue in the two man system. The phrase "appropriate umpire" in the MLB rules would indicate the U3 would make the call on a check swing w/ a left handed batter. One of the many imperfections of the two man system.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by njdevs00cup

Bob,

I can see this being an issue in the two man system. The phrase "appropriate umpire" in the MLB rules would indicate the U3 would make the call on a check swing w/ a left handed batter. One of the many imperfections of the two man system.

I disagree. Any BU can see, and opine, on a check swing. If there's more than one BU, then the crew needs to "choose" who to ask (so it doesn't become a "vote."). If there's only one BU, then the choice is easy.

If BU in A would rule on a first pitch check swing by a LH batter, then he should rule on a potential dropped third strike by the same batter. And, if he's going to rule on it if asked, he should rule on it before he's asked to avoid putting either team at a disadvantage.

[Blue37]

Originally Posted by njdevs00cup

Bob,

I can see this being an issue in the two man system. The phrase "appropriate umpire" in the MLB rules would indicate the U3 would make the call on a check swing w/ a left handed batter. One of the many imperfections of the two man system.

Isn't there a set of 3 or 4 man mechanics that has the same umpire take the check swing regardless of the handiness of the batter? I am thinking it is the 3rd base ump, but I am not sure.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Blue37

Isn't there a set of 3 or 4 man mechanics that has the same umpire take the check swing regardless of the handiness of the batter? I am thinking it is the 3rd base ump, but I am not sure.

Not that I'm aware of. With two umpires on the line, all go to the umpire that is on the "open side".

In 3-man, with one umpire on the line and the other in the middle some mechanics go to the "open side" whether that umpire is on the line or in the middle; some go to the umpire "on the line" whether that umpire is on the open side or not.

[Blue37]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Not that I'm aware of. With two umpires on the line, all go to the umpire that is on the "open side".

In 3-man, with one umpire on the line and the other in the middle go to the "open side" whether that umpire is on the line or in the middle; some go to the umpire "on the line" whether that umpire is on the open side or not.

That's what I was trying to remember. Going to the umpire on the line.

Thanks Bob!

[Cub42]

In the Pro Lg I am in, using 3 man crew, we go to the umpire on the line if one of us is inside. I have found you have a much better perspective from the line than at any time when inside