Check swing in C?

[LMan]

How often do you:

1) get asked for a checkswing appeal while in C, and;

2) how often do you call a 'strike?'

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by LMan

How often do you:

1) get asked for a checkswing appeal while in C, and;

2) how often do you call a 'strike?'

Probably just as much as I'm asked when I'm in A or D. Regardless of the position I'm in I give my partner my honest opinion as to whether or not the batter offered at the pitch. I'm not one to worry about hurting my partners feelings on a check swing appeal.


Tim.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by LMan

How often do you:

1) get asked for a checkswing appeal while in C, and;

2) how often do you call a 'strike?'

1. Whenever the defense asks the plate man to get help.

2. Whenever I judge the batter offered at the pitch.

Why should the position of the BU have any bearing on his fulfilling his responsibilities? What happened, did you work with a Smitty who said, "I won't come to you if you're on the grass, and if I have to, give me what I got"?

Call what you have. That's your job. No set of mechanics that I'm familiar with, Pro, FED, CCA, offer a loophole for BU's on the grass. No upper level umpire I've worked with expected any different.

[LMan]

I know...I'm just curious if coaches (more than PUs, really) ask less/more often when you are on the grass or not, or if its the same as in A. Just a lil research

[UmpJM]

LMan,

Certainly doesn't make any difference to me.

I try to teach my catchers to always appeal a "checked swing ball" call if there's the slightest doubt, regardless of the BU's position.

For some reason, this is not instinctive to them when I get them. I "harp" on it. I know I'm starting to get through to them when they either:

a. Appeal on a checked swing strike call - I assure them that that's not really necessary

or

b. Appeal when there is no BU.

This pleases me, because it shows they are starting to develop the "instinct".

Once when this happened, the 1B coach banged the strike on his batter. He may have just been kidding, but I think he was really just pissed off at his batter for chasing a pitch at his eyes with a 3-0 count.

JM

[LMan]

Thanks JM.

I think I worded my question poorly. Since obviously the angle is different, blah, blah, I was wondering if anyone had better visual cues to determine a swing attempt from C (or B, for that matter). Different angle, but closer to the batter, etc.

In my rather limited experience I have not had as many appeals to me as BU in B or C (perhaps F2/coach thinks I wont change the call?), but I dont know why that is. I have banged out a few batters from C on checkswings, though.

Appreciate the input

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by LMan

Thanks JM.

I think I worded my question poorly. Since obviously the angle is different, blah, blah, I was wondering if anyone had better visual cues to determine a swing attempt from C (or B, for that matter). Different angle, but closer to the batter, etc.

In my rather limited experience I have not had as many appeals to me as BU in B or C (perhaps F2/coach thinks I wont change the call?), but I dont know why that is. I have banged out a few batters from C on checkswings, though.

Appreciate the input

I have noticed that they don't ask as often when working in the middle, but they do ask. I have no trouble defining whether or not a batter has made an attempt from either B or C.

[BigUmp56]

I think we have a few moronic commentators like Joe Morgan and Tim McCarver to thank for some of the grief we take when we ring up a batter on an appeal from inside. Too often I'll hear a coach complain that there was no way I could see if the barrel of the bat broke the front plane of the plate. I'm sure some of this comes directly from listening to ignorant commentators who have no idea how we judge an attempt.



Tim.

[Zebra in NV]

Originally Posted by CoachJM

LMan,

...snip

I try to teach my catchers to always appeal a "checked swing ball" call if there's the slightest doubt, regardless of the BU's position.

For some reason, this is not instinctive to them when I get them. I "harp" on it. I know I'm starting to get through to them when they either:

a. Appeal on a checked swing strike call - I assure them that that's not really necessary

snip...

JM

This has probably been posted before (you can't appeal a check swing called a strike - see 9.02 c for those unaware) but might be useful for neophytes . I know of at least a couple of umps in my assoc. that get rather ticked off if catch tries to appeal a called strike on a check swing (accompanied by a "Yes he went").

[UmpJM]

Z in NV,

On the few occasions when my catcher did this without thinking, the PU seemed mildly amused rather than annoyed.

On the more frequest occasions when the clueless offensive coach tried to appeal, the PU did not seem the least bit amused.

JM

[ajjl22]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

I think we have a few moronic commentators like Joe Morgan and Tim McCarver to thank for some of the grief we take when we ring up a batter on an appeal from inside. Too often I'll hear a coach complain that there was no way I could see if the barrel of the bat broke the front plane of the plate. I'm sure some of this comes directly from listening to ignorant commentators who have no idea how we judge an attempt.



Tim.

I don't think you can blame this one on Morgan or McCarver on this one(you can on a lot of other topics!!). Every game that the two of them work are either 4 or 6 man, so there is never an instance where they would get help from the inside umpire.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by ajjl22

I don't think you can blame this one on Morgan or McCarver on this one(you can on a lot of other topics!!). Every game that the two of them work are either 4 or 6 man, so there is never an instance where they would get help from the inside umpire.

I think the point was that Morgan and McCarver perpetuate the myths about "the bat crossing the plane of the plate", or "the batter breaking his wrists" as being determining factors to whether a checked swing is a strike or not.

Coaches and players hear them say this, and then use it on the umpires by saying, "c'mon Blue, he broke his wrists!" or "The bat went across the plate, Blue, that's automatically a strike!"

[DG]

Originally Posted by LMan

How often do you:

1) get asked for a checkswing appeal while in C, and;

2) how often do you call a 'strike?'

1) rarely

2) rarely

I usually work with partners who would call a strike if the swing remotely looked like one, as I would also do.

In pregame I always tell my BU that I am autormatic, if they ask I go to my partner. If you have nothing say he didn't go, if you have strike I want it back, because I missed it.