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Sun Feb 09, 2003, 05:33am
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While I was looking through the Fed case book to find sonething on the umpire asking the batter is she is the correct one,Which by the way I couldn't find, I came accross this.
Check swing: 10.1.4 Situation B1 attempting to check her swing,carries the barrel of the bat past her body. The umpire calls this a strike. Ruling: The umpire may note whether or not the batter's movement carried the barrel of the bat past the batter's body, but, This is what got me thinking??? The umpire's final decision is based on whether or not the batter ACTUALLY STRUCK AT THE BALL. Now, If I think she actually wanted to stop her swing, but the bat went past her body, would I or could I not call a strike??
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Bob Del-Blue NCAA, ASA, NFHS NIF 
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Sun Feb 09, 2003, 06:06am
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Take the strike. What started the batter's swing was the intent to hit the ball. That's good enough to meet the requirements of that explanation. The fact that the batter later decided not to swing may be too late - that's where your judgement comes in on the check swing.
Steve M
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Sun Feb 09, 2003, 07:31am
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Steve,
I usually get the strike, But after reading that, It made me think. Has anyone not called a strike because they thought she intended Not to swing.
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Bob Del-Blue NCAA, ASA, NFHS NIF
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Sun Feb 09, 2003, 08:17am
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Quote:
Roger Greene
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Sun Feb 09, 2003, 08:51am
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Bob,
Doing college ball, I know that you're almost always getting the strike. The only time I give a batter a break on a checked swing is when the ball breaks way inside and the batter has to not only check the swing but bail out to avoid getting hit. Although I did have one last year where the ball broke hard inside and the batter bunted at the ball in a self-protecting manner. I had to get some help from my partner on that one as I couldn't see through her back. Steve M
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Sun Feb 09, 2003, 11:21am
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I've seen batters, on very close pitches, turn forward and fall down. The bat does go around, but they were not swinging. The bat and the body moved as a unit as they were avoiding being hit by the pitch. (More in baseball than in softball, I admit.)
I've also seen batters, as an obvious fourth ball is approaching, cross the plate with the barrel of the bat as they throw it toward the on deck circle. But obviously no intent to hit the ball.
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greymule More whiskey—and fresh horses for my men! Roll Tide!
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Sun Feb 09, 2003, 11:33am
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Quote:
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The only thing fair in life is a ball hit between first and third.
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Sun Feb 09, 2003, 02:16pm
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Quote:
It all depends on the plate umpire's judgement. If it is called a strike, then it's a strike. If not, then it's probably a ball. There's an awful lot of variables that may be in your situation - so many that it's got to be seen before any judgement here. Steve M
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Sun Feb 09, 2003, 02:37pm
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If I think the batter started an actual swing, I call a strike. Only if it appears to me that his motion was purely to get out of the way do I call a ball.
I've had younger girls use the bat to try to ward off a pitch that's coming at them, especially at their face. It's a tough call when a 9-year-old reflexively puts the bat up in front of her for protection and then gets whacked in the face and is lying in the box in tears. In my experience, especially in rec ball where that play usually occurs, everyone in the park, including the defense, wants to see her go to 1B.
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greymule More whiskey—and fresh horses for my men! Roll Tide!
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Sun Feb 09, 2003, 09:18pm
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Barrel of the Bat
To me, the direction of the barrel of the bat is what constitutes a swing. A girl with proper technique will have her body turning and hands pulling out in front of the plate, but the barrel of the bat will still be pointing back. (Roughly parallel to the plane of the swing.) At that point, if she says "ohno" and continues to turn, but keeps the barrel back, I have no swing. If, however, she unleases those wrists and the barrel starts towards perpendicular to the plane of the swing, then it is a swing no matter how she tries to stop after that.
Now a girl with poor technique will start swinging the barrel of the bat right from the top. Her hands don't move forward much because the barrel of the bat is already moving towards the perpendicular. She started her swing with the very first movement of the body, and there is no place for her to stop. What ever she does, it is a swing. Maybe I am being too technicial, but I am saying is that the body turn and the pulling of the hands forward is not a swing, but merely positioning the body for the swing. WMB
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Sun Feb 09, 2003, 10:22pm
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I agree that a body turn and pulling hands is not likely a swing. But, often when this happens, the batter will actually defensively strike at the pitch - and that is a swing.
The direction the barrel of the bat is pointing is an aid in deciding whether it was a swing or not. Fed does not do a great job of explainging what to look for in the rules book - "Did the swing carry the barrel in front of the batter and in the direction of the infield?" Fed's softball umpire manual does a much better job - it was copied, by agreement, from ASA. From memory, there are four areas of concern: 1-rolling the wrists 2-swing through and draw back 3-bat in front of the body 4-makes an attempt to hit the pitch The vast majority, in excess of 95% if memory serves me right, of check swings are actually swings according to a study done by one of the Big Ten schools examining major league baseball players given this or similar criteria. In this particular area, I see no difference between baseball and softball. Steve M
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Mon Feb 10, 2003, 02:57am
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Quote:
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Mon Feb 10, 2003, 11:19am
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BTW, for those who work ASA fastpitch, the prescribed mechanic for a check swing inquiry is now as follows:
Batter attempts to check and umpire is unsure or is asked to check. Umpire removes mask with left hand, takes two good sized steps to the side from which you are requesting help. Point to your partner with right hand and ask: SWING? Not: Did she go? Do you have a swing? What do you think? Just one word: SWING? Partner replies: YES (demonstrating a hammer) or NO (offering a "safe" signal) I'm sure many of you have already seen or heard this, just throwing it out for those who may have not.
__________________
The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
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Mon Feb 10, 2003, 01:55pm
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Couldn't tell!
I had one young lady that would hold her bat, facing up, diagonal from her body and just sort of spin. I couldn't tell if she was swinging or not. So, after the second time, I stopped play and let both her and her coach know that since I couldn't differentiate her motions that I would be calling a swing any time she did that from then on. Neither had a problem with that, and that is what I did. She continued to do that throughout the game. I hope she got some batting instruction shortly afterward, though. Didn't see her team the remainder of the season.
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Mon Feb 10, 2003, 02:28pm
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Quote:
This information was given to us at our National School last weekend here in Phoenix. The explanation was to simplify the question due to the rapid expansion of softball globally and possible language barriers among international umpires. Personally, I don't like it. I can forsee two problems: I step out and say to my partner...SWING? Batter or offensive coach: What do you mean s/he swung at that?!? Defensive coach: Hey, you said s/he swung, why are you changing the call?!?
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It's what you learn after you think you know it all that's important!
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