Asking BU on a Check Swing

[SAump]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

On this situation, appeal IMMEDIATELY. You do not need to wait for somebody to ask.

This will eliminate all the problems described in your OP.

Must the base ump wait for PU to ask or may BU independently, ring up the B/R from A?

[socalblue1]

Originally Posted by SAump

Must the base ump wait for PU to ask or may BU independently, ring up the B/R from A?

Great question!

My philosophy when PU is I WANT the BU to make the call right away. We brief this pre-game: with two strikes and a loose ball I will ALWAYS as the BU on a check swing situation. IMO this is the best solution for all three teams on the field & eliminates potential confusion

Given the right situation, I have no problem with the BU giving his input without delay. As an example from last weekend: R3 with one out. 0-2 pitch is a decent slider in the dirt with a check swing. Ball bounces off F2 right up the 1B line.

I now have several things going on around home plate, including a potential tangle/untangle between F2 & the batter-runner. My partner in C renders a clear and LOUD "No, he didn't go!". Batter stops, F2 gets to the ball, R3 holds and we go to the next pitch with no drama.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by socalblue1

Great question!

My philosophy when PU is I WANT the BU to make the call right away. We brief this pre-game: with two strikes and a loose ball I will ALWAYS as the BU on a check swing situation. IMO this is the best solution for all three teams on the field & eliminates potential confusion

Given the right situation, I have no problem with the BU giving his input without delay. As an example from last weekend: R3 with one out. 0-2 pitch is a decent slider in the dirt with a check swing. Ball bounces off F2 right up the 1B line.

I now have several things going on around home plate, including a potential tangle/untangle between F2 & the batter-runner. My partner in C renders a clear and LOUD "No, he didn't go!". Batter stops, F2 gets to the ball, R3 holds and we go to the next pitch with no drama.

The ML mechanic (last I heard / read) is that BU is to come up with an immediate call without being asked only if he is going to rule a swing / strike. If he's going to support the "no call", then he waits to be asked.

I'm certainly NOT saying that SoCalBlue's partner used the "wrong" mechanic -- only pointing out that it's "different."

Whatever is used should be pre-gamed -- and recognize that it will be new to many participants, so expect some confusion / delay / missed mechanics the first several times it is (or should be) used.

[socalblue1]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

The ML mechanic (last I heard / read) is that BU is to come up with an immediate call without being asked only if he is going to rule a swing / strike. If he's going to support the "no call", then he waits to be asked.

I'm certainly NOT saying that SoCalBlue's partner used the "wrong" mechanic -- only pointing out that it's "different."

Whatever is used should be pre-gamed -- and recognize that it will be new to many participants, so expect some confusion / delay / missed mechanics the first several times it is (or should be) used.

Bob,

Normally I would expect the call only when he is going to rule a strike.

Partner recognized the potential for problems and made what I thought was a great decision in this case.

[njdevs00cup]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

The ML mechanic (last I heard / read) is that BU is to come up with an immediate call without being asked only if he is going to rule a swing / strike. If he's going to support the "no call", then he waits to be asked.

I'm certainly NOT saying that SoCalBlue's partner used the "wrong" mechanic -- only pointing out that it's "different."

Whatever is used should be pre-gamed -- and recognize that it will be new to many participants, so expect some confusion / delay / missed mechanics the first several times it is (or should be) used.

Bob,

Assuming this situation is during a high school game, two man crews) wouldn't an immediate strike call (by BU, w/o appeal) on a left-handed batter be looking for problems?

[socalblue1]

Originally Posted by njdevs00cup

Bob,

Assuming this situation is during a high school game, two man crews) wouldn't an immediate strike call (by BU, w/o appeal) on a left-handed batter be looking for problems?

I'm not Bob, but why? Any umpire who is unable or unwilling to make a check swing call from any location on any batter should stop umpiring. Simple mjusdgement - did the batter offer at the pitch?

[Dave Reed]

Since there seems to some variance in opinion, here is what the MLBUM says:
8.7 "VOLUNTARY STRIKE"
In the situation where the third strike eludes the catcher on a half-swing and the batter-runner is entitled to run to first base, the appeal should be made to the base umpire instantly (without waiting for a request from the defense); but even if the appeal is not instant, the appropriate base umpire should immediately and voluntarily make a call of strike IF the base umpire is going to reverse the plate umpire's call. This will give the batter the immediate opportunity to run.

[Bolding, caps, and quotation marks copied from MLBUM.]

[PeteBooth]

Dave that's what the manual says but in all my years of watching PRO ball I have yet to see a BU ON HIS OWN make a call of strike on the play presented.

I know the Doug Eddings play in the ACLS years back was a little different but no other umpire "piped-up" during that fiasco.

It's like many things in life - meaning there is a manual and then there is actual practice.

Pete Booth

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by njdevs00cup

Bob,

Assuming this situation is during a high school game, two man crews) wouldn't an immediate strike call (by BU, w/o appeal) on a left-handed batter be looking for problems?

If BU is going to "call it later" then he's better off "calling it now."

[njdevs00cup]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

If BU is going to "call it later" then he's better off "calling it now."

Bob,

I can see this being an issue in the two man system. The phrase "appropriate umpire" in the MLB rules would indicate the U3 would make the call on a check swing w/ a left handed batter. One of the many imperfections of the two man system.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by njdevs00cup

Bob,

I can see this being an issue in the two man system. The phrase "appropriate umpire" in the MLB rules would indicate the U3 would make the call on a check swing w/ a left handed batter. One of the many imperfections of the two man system.

I disagree. Any BU can see, and opine, on a check swing. If there's more than one BU, then the crew needs to "choose" who to ask (so it doesn't become a "vote."). If there's only one BU, then the choice is easy.

If BU in A would rule on a first pitch check swing by a LH batter, then he should rule on a potential dropped third strike by the same batter. And, if he's going to rule on it if asked, he should rule on it before he's asked to avoid putting either team at a disadvantage.

[Blue37]

Originally Posted by njdevs00cup

Bob,

I can see this being an issue in the two man system. The phrase "appropriate umpire" in the MLB rules would indicate the U3 would make the call on a check swing w/ a left handed batter. One of the many imperfections of the two man system.

Isn't there a set of 3 or 4 man mechanics that has the same umpire take the check swing regardless of the handiness of the batter? I am thinking it is the 3rd base ump, but I am not sure.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by njdevs00cup

Bob,

I can see this being an issue in the two man system. The phrase "appropriate umpire" in the MLB rules would indicate the U3 would make the call on a check swing w/ a left handed batter. One of the many imperfections of the two man system.

I get no more worked up calling a swing from A with a LH batter than I do a right handed batter. Or in B or C or whatever. It's just another decision to make and that's what we're paid for.

[Emperor Ump]

Originally Posted by SAump

Must the base ump wait for PU to ask or may BU independently, ring up the B/R from A?

He must absolutely wait to be asked. It's the same as any other call until you're asked, don't say a word. Having a BU make a call on a swing w/o being properly appealed to opens up a terrible bag of worms. Next thing you know the defense is asking your partner to make these calls without you knowing and then the PU loses control.

I have no problem appealing or even giving a call opposite of my partner when asked, but would never consider making the call w/o being asked.

Back to the O/P, the PU should come up quickly with the appeal. Even/especially with the ball being at the back stop.

But if the catcher comes back from the backstop and the defense hasn't already done something to loose their right to an appeal, they can still appeal, and potentially get that out.

P.S. FWIW I also don't believe in using an "I've got info" type signal. Good coaches can sniff theses out and it has the same effect of shoving a call up your partners a$$ when a coach comes out to argue and then saying, "We'll why don't you go ask you're partner I know he has something different because I saw him take off his cap..." or what ever your signal may be. Not a good situation to be in.