Worthy of Ejection?

[tballump]

From what I have read, I agree with BBD when you are talking about the pro game and it is just a statement, but a complete scream and any jesture where the whole world can hear and see would be unacceptable there also. However, at the amateur level, this whole scene should be handled even tougher than the pros. I believe there is something about profanity audible to the stands somewhere in both pro and amateur.

If you let this guy say it loud enough for all the world to hear, then you have to let all the other players that night say it at least once for all the world to hear. Then every umpire after you has to hear and suffer the repercussions of this the next night because the players will say you did not act on that outburst, so why should the following crews handle it any differently.

This is much like a batter drawing a line, how you handle it, and what it means for the rest of the night. It also has repercussions for umpires that follow you in that league, when you let some sportsmanship issue arise and either act or do not act on it.

One other point. A league is only as good as how the person in charge "backs" the umpires in that league.

NOTE: In many areas the assignors (many but not all) have 40-50 or more schools (high school and middle school and other leagues) where they are paid $100 or more for every sport and team they assign (JV&Varsity boys and girls football, basketball, volleyball, soccer, baseball, wrestling, field hockey etc. etc.). This can work out to a nice 5-6 figure salary.

So, this leads me to "wonder" where they stand when it comes to backing umpire/official vs. team/league/school/coach on sportsmanship/contentious issues such as ejections. The above does not mean "all" assignors, or maybe it does not mean "any" assignors at all and I apologize if I have questioned any assignors integrity (yeah, I'll hear about it) , but I think it is food for thought and maybe that's all it is, food for thought.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

You'd have empty benches in a hurry in pro ball.

I'll remember than if and when I work pro ball. Thanks.

[bossman72]

Originally Posted by bobbybanaduck

"That fing pitch was inside"

The "f word" here is simply an adjective used to describe the pitch and is not ejectable on it's own, unless you are in a non-swearing league. Color me a jerk if you will, but, if I were the assignor and that is the story you gave me, I would agree that the EJ was not a good one.

bobby, would your opinion of the situation change if it was a scholastic (18yo) game?

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by njdevs00cup

Men's league: Batter takes a called strike two. He steps out, gives me a stare and steps back in. Batter swings at a fastball for strike three. While in the batter's box, he looks at me and says for all to hear, "That F***ing pitch was inside!"

"Looked good to me, Chief - that's why I called it!"

Don't get cocky with them, but let them know that you are the judge not them. I wouldn't eject the player in this scenario as long as it is above NCAA.

[TussAgee11]

You're always going to run into problems in certain adult leagues no matter what you do. Its hard to throw a blanket statement out there saying whether or not you did the right thing, because no matter what you do, adult leagues are just so unpredictable.

At the HS level, I'm probably ejecting assuming the whole world heard and there was no doubt he was saying it to me and not himself ("that pitch was f****** inside" could be said to himself for swinging at a bad pitch for strike 3 after all). If was talking about strike 2, and I was sure of it, probably going to have to dump at the HS level.

NCAA and Pros, no way.

Adult League - who knows. Its a circus no matter what you do... eject, ignore, talk back, reason. Who knows what sets each of those people off... if you knew the player and had some experience with him maybe you would know which route to take.

[bobbybanaduck]

Originally Posted by bossman72

bobby, would your opinion of the situation change if it was a scholastic (18yo) game?

Originally Posted by bobbybanaduck

"That fing pitch was inside"

The "f word" here is simply an adjective used to describe the pitch and is not ejectable on it's own, unless you are in a non-swearing league. Color me a jerk if you will, but, if I were the assignor and that is the story you gave me, I would agree that the EJ was not a good one.

I believe I already answered that.

[Emperor Ump]

In the OP I probably wouldn't have pulled the trigger. Everybody saw him swing and can see who's being the jerk. If he'd carried it too much further by continuing to rant he'd be gone.

[PeteBooth]

First things first "mens League" - Enough said.

Have some feed-back with your assignor as to why he felt you should not have tossed the guy.

As far as EJ's go you will get a variety of answers as you have seen.

We are all from different parts of the country and have our own experiences in umpiring mens leagues games.

I have in mens league games "sent messages" however, that would be difficult to do in your case since the batter already K'd and IMO a message should be sent "right away" not some-time later on.

Example:

F1 had a mean hook this particular day and fooled B1. I called strike 2. After that B1 proceeded to draw a line around the plate and said he would need a tree trunk to hit that pitch.

F2 noticing that I did not toss B1 used his head. He set-up some 5-6 inches off the outside edge where F1 threw it. I rang up strike 3 and ALL knew what I had done.

I kept B1 in the game but also by my actions TOLD EVERYONE I will tolerate such nonsense.

The next time B1 came up he said "Blue can we start over" which I said Yes

However, that "message" was sent "right away"

Your OP is different. If only you, F2 and the batter heard the F Bomb I might be inclined to "let it go" however, if others heard it as well, then to keep control over the game (Men's leagues are notorious for getting out of control at the drop of a hat) he is gone.

It boils down to what you as an umpire tolerate and also the kind of league you are dealing with. As mentioned we are all from different parts of the county and what works in Montana might not necsssarily work in NY. As far as your assignor goes as mentioned above I would ask him why he thought the batter should not have been tossed.

Pete Booth

[BigUmp56]

Sorry, Pete, I can't agree with the FU call. In my opinion, you should have dumped him............


Tim.

[asdf]

The OP idicated that "he says for all to hear"......

He's showing you up. Strike Four !!!

In my book he's going home, no matter what the level of baseball.





P.S. -- the assigner needs to grow a pair.......

[Umpmazza]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

You'd have empty benches in a hurry in pro ball.

In college as well...

[PeteBooth]

Tim normally I would agree with you but the mens league at least in my area play once a week, normally Sunday mornings. It costs them around $350-$400 to join which includes insurance, uniform costs and umpire Fees.

I realize I should not govern EJ's based on Financial reasons but in baseball unlike the other sports there is no penalty for unsportsmanlike acts other than Ejection.

Also, many of these guys played College semi-pro etc. so they KNOW what's going on. These are not 12 yr. olds although they act like it sometimes.

The "message" is not something I am going to do all game long, but at least from my experience in dealing with men's leagues it has worked and even though they get "hosed" on a strike 3 call at least they are still in the game.

In addition they are not suspended from the next game or have to pay a fine. (This league I umpired in had an automatic one game suspension if you got EJ'd plus they had to pay a $25.00 fine on top of that)

Therefore, at least for me this method has worked.

Pete Booth

[ozzy6900]

You know people, it really amazes me how many "know it alls" there are out there! I am willing to bet that most of you who are making statements about how "he said it loud enough to be heard" never umpired anything above HS! Now Tim (BU56), has officiated this level and ceased for the same reasons that I did - constant abuse from "want to bees that never were"! This isn't LL or HS, people, these people let you know in no uncertain terms if you screw up - either in their opinion or for real! Pete & Dash both know what I am talking about here, the games can run smooth or be hell. And if you get under the skin of one of these hot-shot managers, your night can be pure hell.

So comments fly back and forth and as we tell you all on this board, much of this craft is having a thick skin. In my territory, it was not uncommon for the local Police to have backup arrive to escort the umpires to their cars under the bleachers. This particular league became so out of hand that almost a dozen of us walked out in mid-season. That was 1998 and I have not been back since! (I am getting too old for that crap now)

Anyway, back to my admonishment of some of you out there. If you think that you can officiate a men's league or NCAA level by the same standards as you would HS kids, you are going to have a very short career with them. They will chew you up and spit out the bones. It's no shame to be on this board and only have officiated youth or HS. Just stop trying to tell us how you would do this and that when you haven't even gotten to that level.

Peace

[RPatrino]

1,2,5 and 7 after the game.

[umpduck11]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

Tim normally I would agree with you but the mens league at least in my area play once a week, normally Sunday mornings. It costs them around $350-$400 to join which includes insurance, uniform costs and umpire Fees.

Pete Booth

If they want their money's worth of baseball, I'd recommend they not act like that. I don't give a rip how much they pay to play, they're not paying me extra to listen to their BS.