Do the participants really care how we are dressed

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by Dave Reed

Well, this thread has (predictably) strayed away from the original question, and has become once again a fashion topic. Or the ever-popular "how long is your bill?"

My strongly held position, based on attending way too many baseball games in my role as a dad, is that the participants truly don't care how an umpire is dressed. At the D1 level, if a plate umpire were to show up in blue jeans, with the leg guards (necessarily) worn on the outside, it would be noticed because it would be completely outside the norm. But the participants wouldn't care or withhold respect. (Of course there are some participants who would be unhappy regardless.) Respect stems from competence, and competence or the lack of shows up quickly for a plate umpire.

In reality, except for new umpires, the participants already have formed their opinion based on previous games.

There's nothing wrong with dressing the part, and I suspect it helps some umpires be confident and competent. It almost certainly is an important aspect of moving up in the ranks. But the participants form their opinions based on primarily an umpires actions.

I strongly disagree with you being an ex-professional player, an ex-coach, an umpire, a father of a pitcher and being in the game for almost 45 years! But then, what do I know...... I'm just a dumb umpire!

[johnnyg08]

I would tend to agree with the above post...to a point...in many leagues all the players care about is that the umps shows up on time and does a good job. Just because that's might be the case, that doesn't mean we as umpires don't care about our appearance simply because our customers don't care...

[piaa_ump]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

In a word, yes.

Years ago I was discussing this with a D-iii skipper. He made this observation:

"I have seen a few sh!tty umpires come out looking like top flight umpires, but I have never seen real top flight umpires come out looking like sh!tty umpires."

I took this thought to heart...I applied this to my 2 associations....man by man with my regular partner and our assignor...The 3 of us went down the roster and almost to a man we agreed that the umpires that are consistently rated as the best are also the better dressed umpires...

The only few (3) exceptions were very senior umpires who have allowed thier uniforms standards to lag as they transistion out ...

[Dave Reed]

Originally Posted by rei

You have (predictably) missed the point many were trying to make in this thread.

If by "missed the point" you mean "not convinced of the point", then I plead guilty.

Originally Posted by Dave Reed

If by "missed the point" you mean "not convinced of the point", then I plead guilty.

No, you definitely missed it. You should re-read it all very carefully.

Now if you got the point many of us are making, and you are still not convinced, then really, there is nothing to say to you. You would never advance very high in any kind of officials association, and would probably never amount to any kind of decent official, and frankly, would have an opinion that no decent official would really care about.

[kylejt]

I know plenty of coaches who also umpire. Come dressed like a hobo, and they're going to ride you like a rented mule.

My son, who is a pretty decent umpire, is coaching 13u travel ball. He kills umpires who show up dressed improperly. It's a big red flag that states "I have no idea what I'm doing out here".

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

That stated, I use a combo hat at the plate when I work (6 stitch) because it is comfortable (fitted of course)...

Combo hats are 4 stitch. Short-bill base hats are 6 stitch. I find that the bills on combo hats are too short for plate work. I too like the 6 stitch for the plate and 8 stitch long-bill hats for the bases.

[Tim C]

"You would never advance very high in any kind of officials association, and would probably never amount to any kind of decent official, and frankly, would have an opinion that no decent official would really care about."

Rei and I are in the same high school association. I am an umpire observer for his college group. I post this so you all can recognize that even two umpires in the same group can see things through different colored glasses.

The Portland Baseball Umpires Association is made up of around 175 people from varied backgrounds.

We have umpires of all shapes, sizes, nationalities, and ages.

I couldn't disagree more with Rei on this specific subject. The Original post asked do "participants" care how umpires look. My answer to that is a firm "no."

From my experience the PBUA still sends guys to upper level (and playoff) games that dress horribly.

All the regulars know that I am a grear junky. I have both plate and base pants in heather and charcoal and I carry 47 different shirts to every game. I STILL CANNOT MATCH EVERY OTHER PBUA MEMBER WHEN IT COMES TO SHADE OF PANT OR SHIRT OR PIPING PATTERN ON SLEEVES.

Participants want a good solid job of umpiring. While having never worked a small diamond game I have heard gasps and "gee, we get real umpires today!" when I have been near a game of young players. That isn't how I viewed this original post.

Rei and I lament annually about the caps our umpires wear. We have ba$terized that selection by using several different suppliers over the past five years. As umpires that work non-professional games how much investment (money) can we expect our members to pony-up?

Wear a clean uniform and wipe dirt and dust from your shoes before each game. That will "impress" those that count and leave the "uniform police" to worrying about each other.

And Rei, just because Dave Reed doesn't agree with you does not mean he should burn in he11 . . . he has a right to an opinion.

Regards,

[bigda65]

Post this question on a coaches board, or players board and I would bet that 99.9% of them could care less about what the umpires wore.

They want a consistent strike zone, hustle into positions, confident calls etc. etc.etc.

And way down at the bottom of the list "appearance".

As we all can see, post this on an umpires forum, better than 80% think you cant go anywhere without dressing the part.

I personally do not dress the part, for a couple of reasons:
The main one, is that I am confident enough that my umpiring abilities will overshadow my dressing abilities.
I do not wish to advance at this time. I do mostly volunteer games anyway. I have done some V and JV high school games, where there is pay, but I can assure you, in my area, they could care less about how you dress.

[kylejt]

Originally Posted by bigda65

And way down at the bottom of the list "appearance".

Perhaps it's a local thing.

But trust me, in SoCal, if you show up for a game not looking sharp, coaches take note. And you'll never hear it directly. They won't say "You goof, you've got your hat on backwards, that's way you missed that call!". They'll just say "Aw S@#$" to themselves as you walk on the field.


When I'm in the dugout, I'll size up the umpire when he hits the gate. Polished shoes, black ball bags, no beanie, etc. means he might have a clue. If a guy rolls out with pants that are wrinkled, he's saying he doesn't care about the GAME. No just himself, that's obvious, but the GAME.

They say that looking the part will get you through the first two innings. Maybe it's a personal thing, but I just like looking good, no matter what I'm doing. If you don't care about your apperance, perhaps you've chosen the wrong hobby. Remeber, there's always fishing.

[PeteBooth]

Originally Posted by rei

No, you definitely missed it. You should re-read it all very carefully.

You would never advance very high in any kind of officials association, and would probably never amount to any kind of decent official, and frankly, would have an opinion that no decent official would really care about.

Rei with all due respect Dave has a point. We all know that for the most part in order to advance in an umpire association there is a certain dress code. However, that's not what I asked.

Here is the crux of my OP

So let's take away umpire associations for a minute in which we are mandated to dress a certain way. Is apparel that important of an issue for the participants or is it more of an umpire vs. umpire issue

I am not talking about our peers or specific umpire associations. I am STRICTLY speaking as Tee said about the participants view.

I am assuming you read Nigel's thread about doing a game in shorts because he left his "stuff" home. At the beginning perhaps some got a laugh but as the game progressed IMO, the particpants cared more about how good his zone was etc. Granted he was solo but as long as he was hustling etc. that's all they really care about.

If Nigel did a good job he would most likely be requested to do another of thier games.

Our peers and umpire association perspectives are vastly different from that of participants.

Pete Booth

[BigTex]

Originally Posted by kylejt

I know plenty of coaches who also umpire. Come dressed like a hobo, and they're going to ride you like a rented mule.

My son, who is a pretty decent umpire, is coaching 13u travel ball. He kills umpires who show up dressed improperly. It's a big red flag that states "I have no idea what I'm doing out here".

Shame on your son for being such a rat. If he truly is a decent umpire, he would never "kill umpires" or let anyone from his staff do the same. Let your son know that he can be an umpire or a rat, not both.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by kylejt

Perhaps it's a local thing.

But trust me, in SoCal, if you show up for a game not looking sharp, coaches take note. And you'll never hear it directly. They won't say "You goof, you've got your hat on backwards, that's way you missed that call!". They'll just say "Aw S@#$" to themselves as you walk on the field.


When I'm in the dugout, I'll size up the umpire when he hits the gate. Polished shoes, black ball bags, no beanie, etc. means he might have a clue. If a guy rolls out with pants that are wrinkled, he's saying he doesn't care about the GAME. No just himself, that's obvious, but the GAME.

They say that looking the part will get you through the first two innings. Maybe it's a personal thing, but I just like looking good, no matter what I'm doing. If you don't care about your apperance, perhaps you've chosen the wrong hobby. Remeber, there's always fishing.

I agree. Here in SoCal it's all about looks. I've sat in the stands and heard people saying things about a raggedy umpire's appearance, so I know that people are paying attention.

There is this guy in my former association who I had never met and I was assigned to work an adult league game with him. Like me, he was around 40 at the time. I rolled up into the parking lot, and he was finishing up getting dressed. I looked at him and could not believe how wrinkled his pants were, and all purple from being old. His shirt was equally wrinkled and his shoes were dirty and his hat needed an oil change. He wore a totally worn out brown belt.

He did a really good job during the game, which surprised me. He was a darn good umpire, but because of his appearance I had prejudged him. He told me after the game that he didn't know why our assignor kept giving him JV and other lousy assignments. I suggested that he get himself some new pants and to press his shirts (at the time they were Elbeco) and get a shine on his shoes, replace his hat, etc. I told him that perception is reality, and nobody is going to give him a favorable rating because of how he looked.

Well, the moral of the story is that he took my advice to heart. He bought a pair of patent leather plate shoes that another umpire was selling, purchased real umpire pants and new shirts. He got himself some new hats and a new belt. He squared himself away. He started getting good varsity games and then was recruited by the college association to do college ball.

By that time, we had become pretty good friends and ended up working some really good wood bat collegiate summer games together several years down the road.

I know that umpires place more importance on appearance than most coaches or players do. But there are those out there who know what an umpire is supposed to look like, and aren't shy about pointing out ugly when they see it. Not everyone thinks that umpires wear their hats backwards or their shin guards on the outside of the pants.

[johnnyg08]

Come dressed like a hobo, and they're going to ride you like a rented mule.

I've seen some pretty well dressed umpires in my area get railed pretty good conversely, I've seen the other side as well. TimC's post just a few above mine, pretty much sums it up for me.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by kylejt

When I'm in the dugout, I'll size up the umpire when he hits the gate. Polished shoes, black ball bags, no beanie, etc. means he might have a clue. If a guy rolls out with pants that are wrinkled, he's saying he doesn't care about the GAME. No just himself, that's obvious, but the GAME.

OK Kyle, and be honest now, did you think like that before you took up umpiring?