Do the participants really care how we are dressed

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

OK Kyle, and be honest now, did you think like that before you took up umpiring?

The point is that many coaches and players are also umpires and know what an umpire is supposed to look like. Even those who don't umpire still know what crap looks like and don't step in it. Maybe you don't care what the umpires look like but out here if one of the two partners is dressed poorly, the response is that "the umpires looked like sh!t today." I've overheard it on several occasions.

I personally have never just wiped the dust off my shoes to work a baseball game. Even between games I washed and re-polished my shoes. I wouldn't have dreamed of going on the ball field looking anything but sharp, and can't imagine anyone not having the same amount of pride in their appearance. I just don't understand how any umpire could walk on the field looking like they escaped from a homeless shelter.

[Emperor Ump]

Originally Posted by piaa_ump

I took this thought to heart...I applied this to my 2 associations....man by man with my regular partner and our assignor...The 3 of us went down the roster and almost to a man we agreed that the umpires that are consistently rated as the best are also the better dressed umpires...

The only few (3) exceptions were very senior umpires who have allowed thier uniforms standards to lag as they transistion out ...

This is a great point...

It goes to pride. Those who take pride in their work are going to dress better, work harder on their mechanics, study the rules more in depth and therefore be better umpires.

Back to the original post do the participants care? I believe yes, to a lesser extent than other umpires, but they do still care. Maybe in my area and it sounds like in SoCal too (based on SDS & Kyles comments) the expectation has been set and the participants and parents know what an umpire should look like. I do also agree that they will probably be able to set aside their prejudices once an umpire demonstrates his ability, for better or worse.

[PeteBooth]

Originally Posted by Emperor Ump

This is a great point...

It goes to pride. Those who take pride in their work are going to dress better, work harder on their mechanics, study the rules more in depth and therefore be better umpires.

Back to the original post do the participants care? I believe yes, to a lesser extent than other umpires, but they do still care. Maybe in my area and it sounds like in SoCal too (based on SDS & Kyles comments) the expectation has been set and the participants and parents know what an umpire should look like. I do also agree that they will probably be able to set aside their prejudices once an umpire demonstrates his ability, for better or worse.

IMO, Tee's response sums it up best

"I am only saying that a well dressed umpire will normally command a certain amount of respect UNTIL THE FIRST MISSED PITCH OR CLOSE CALL ON THE BASES!"

IMO, it's like many things in life.

When we played and had to pick players that we have not seen before etc. we picked those players based upon how they dressed meaning did they look like a ball player or an athlete because that's all we had to go on, however,

Once we saw them play if they were good they could come to the next game "naked" for all we cared

We all come from different parts of the country and YES it's been known that a well dressed umpire will command a certain amount of respect etc. however, once the game begins the coach inevitably wll be concerned with the following:

1. Positioning of the umpire crew.
2. PU's consistency calling balls / strikes
3. Umpire teammwork meaning does the PU bust his but covering third base when needed.
4. Overall hustle of the umpiring crew and perhaps one of the most important
5. Umpire demeanor.

Now if the umpires in addition to looking bad also call a horrible game then I agree the first words from the coaches would be based upon dress and then get into all the other stuff.

I have umpired games when I didn't have my apparel because of emergencies etc. Ultimately how I called the game was how I was judged.

I dress appropriately becasue of pride just like when I go to work and also as many of us - To remain in good standing with our various umpire associations. BUT

Suppose we were independent meaning had no association to report to so to speak and no mandates on dress code what would happen.

The umpires who indeed dressed the best would most likely get the first assignments however, after the "dust settled" those umpires who were qualified would start getting the bulk of the work.

Not a bad topic when things are as slow as they have been.

Pete Booth

Originally Posted by Tim C

Rei and I are in the same high school association. I am an umpire observer for his college group. I post this so you all can recognize that even two umpires in the same group can see things through different colored glasses.

The Portland Baseball Umpires Association is made up of around 175 people from varied backgrounds.

We have umpires of all shapes, sizes, nationalities, and ages.

I couldn't disagree more with Rei on this specific subject. The Original post asked do "participants" care how umpires look. My answer to that is a firm "no."

From my experience the PBUA still sends guys to upper level (and playoff) games that dress horribly.

All the regulars know that I am a grear junky. I have both plate and base pants in heather and charcoal and I carry 47 different shirts to every game. I STILL CANNOT MATCH EVERY OTHER PBUA MEMBER WHEN IT COMES TO SHADE OF PANT OR SHIRT OR PIPING PATTERN ON SLEEVES.

Participants want a good solid job of umpiring. While having never worked a small diamond game I have heard gasps and "gee, we get real umpires today!" when I have been near a game of young players. That isn't how I viewed this original post.

Rei and I lament annually about the caps our umpires wear. We have ba$terized that selection by using several different suppliers over the past five years. As umpires that work non-professional games how much investment (money) can we expect our members to pony-up?

Wear a clean uniform and wipe dirt and dust from your shoes before each game. That will "impress" those that count and leave the "uniform police" to worrying about each other.

And Rei, just because Dave Reed doesn't agree with you does not mean he should burn in he11 . . . he has a right to an opinion.

Regards,

Tim, while I appreciate your input, I don't like having words being put in my mouth, or having things I have written intoned to be something other than they are.

I don't recall you "observing" ANY NCUA games this last season.

Also, the PBUA roster is currently at 159, and this includes the commissioner who works maybe 1 or 2 games a year, and a few other guys that maybe work 1 game a week during high school to "help out". I would put our number at about 150 tops! I would estimate that less than 100 of them do more than 40 games a year!

[Tim C]

At seasons end we had over 170 umpires that had been part of the PBUA (school and summer seasons).

Also you can check either with the President of your College group or the assignor (I think you know him) and confirm that I was indeed a college umpire observer. I have already agreed to do it next season also.

You are correct in the number of games that I actually had a "for pay" evaluation last season.

I have stayed silent in respect to our association(s) when you have made several wild statements on this board. I will no longer offer you that professional respect.

You wrote your words and I only corrrectly quoted them.

Live in your own mess.

Regards,

Originally Posted by Tim C

At seasons end we had over 170 umpires that had been part of the PBUA (school and summer seasons).

Also you can check either with the President of your College group or the assignor (I think you know him) and confirm that I was indeed a college umpire observer. I have already agreed to do it next season also.

You are correct in the number of games that I actually had a "for pay" evaluation last season.

I have stayed silent in respect to our association(s) when you have made several wild statements on this board. I will no longer offer you that professional respect.

You wrote your words and I only corrrectly quoted them.

Live in your own mess.

Regards,

LOL...ok Tim. Remember though, that does work both ways!

[kylejt]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

OK Kyle, and be honest now, did you think like that before you took up umpiring?

Honestly, I started umpiring about the same time I started managing. There were a pair of hobo's umpire a LL game I was coaching, and instead of complaining out loud I decided I could do a better job than they could. (Kind of a put up, or shut up thing).

[Ump153]

Patris, quare me repulisti?

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

The point is that many coaches and players are also umpires and know what an umpire is supposed to look like. Even those who don't umpire still know what crap looks like and don't step in it. Maybe you don't care what the umpires look like but out here if one of the two partners is dressed poorly, the response is that "the umpires looked like sh!t today." I've overheard it on several occasions.

I personally have never just wiped the dust off my shoes to work a baseball game. Even between games I washed and re-polished my shoes. I wouldn't have dreamed of going on the ball field looking anything but sharp, and can't imagine anyone not having the same amount of pride in their appearance. I just don't understand how any umpire could walk on the field looking like they escaped from a homeless shelter.

Suppose you go to watch your favorite team play - and they play poorly. As you leave you just might say "Boy, they sure looked like crap today".

Are you referring to their performance or their attire? Got a picture of Ben says you're talking about their performance.

Why do you think a similar comment about the officials would be about their attire?

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Suppose you go to watch your favorite team play - and they play poorly. As you leave you just might say "Boy, they sure looked like crap today".

Are you referring to their performance or their attire? Got a picture of Ben says you're talking about their performance.

Why do you think a similar comment about the officials would be about their attire?

You would lose. I'm talking about appearance, their dress, etc. They have gone on to elaborate about specific things such as "looked like he slept in his uniform" and other such comments.

I am also speaking generally that if one partner looks really sharp, and the other partner looks like a bum, the only thing the coaches will usually remember is that "they looked bad," not "he looked bad." The poorly dressed official reflects negatively in the perception of the entire crew.

Now, yes I have been lumped in with a partner who blew several easy, obvious calls on the bases. I ended up being scratched from that teams playoff games because the JV coach had the varsity squad that day, and couldn't tell the varsity coach which of the two umpires sucked that day, so he scratched us both.

Typical coach mentality, present company excluded.

[bigda65]

Guys,

It must be an area thing. Last year our LL area held the district tournament. While I was checking the equipment, I overheard the manager tell his kids we had really good umpires today ( me and two of my brothers ). Now were we dressed to the nines? NO, but by the same token we weren't dressed as hobos either, I had shorts on that day because it was very hot and humid.
I did not know this guy at all, maybe word travels about umpiring ability.
By the same token, I think word travels about non umpiring abilities as well.
Maybe bad attire is the final icing on the cake as to completely sucking, but what is the difference if you hear "Looks really, really sharp but sucks on the field" ?

[kylejt]

Ha!

IF you were within listening distance, what you heard was the coach kissing up to you.

Shorts?! Umpire shorts? Really?

[SethPDX]

Originally Posted by bigda65

Guys,

It must be an area thing. Last year our LL area held the district tournament.... While I was checking the equipment, I overheard the manager tell his kids we had really good umpires today ( me and two of my brothers ). Now were we dressed to the nines? NO, but by the same token we weren't dressed as hobos either, I had shorts on that day because it was very hot and humid....

Shorts? At a district tournament? It must either be an area thing or LL has a slowpitch softball division I don't know about.

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by kylejt

Shorts?! Umpire shorts? Really?

I saw the Major League Lacrosse all star game on ESPN and the officials were wearing shorts. I've seen NFL officials wear shorts in scrimmages. Shorts in high school and youth football are common. In Summer basketball many officials wear shorts.

What is the big deal with someone wearing shorts to officiate baseball?

[kylejt]

Originally Posted by LDUB

What is the big deal with someone wearing shorts to officiate baseball?

Easy. In most other sports the officials are more (how can I put this nicely) athletic. Baseball umpires have lots of fellows that are under no circumstances allowed in public wearing shorts.

Here's a visual for you: Joe West wearing shorts at second base.

Case closed.

p.s. this goes for cops too.