out of baseline??

[PeteBooth]

WE either have OBS or we do not. you DO NOT tell a coach "I could have called OBS on F2" because the fact is you didn't so IMO that point is moot.

In a later response you said Babe Ruth Fall ball league. I believe Babe Ruth is OBR based. If that's the case it sounds as if F2 needed to be where he was in order to field the thrown ball. That is a different definition than some other rule codes which includes NCAA / FED.

The bottom line in this OP is that a base runner establishes his baseline when the defense applys a tag on him. The runner was already PAST F2 so that point is also moot.

Sounds as though both you and your partner need to attend a good umpire clinic.

Pete Booth

[bigredmachine]

You are missing my point about why I did what I did. I was trying to give the coach the explanation about the baserunning rules, in which case I did correctly. My partner called him safe and he was correct, because of how his baseline was established after he rounded third, and also trying to avoid the collision. He came to me for verification and I gave it to him, which I don't mind doing in this league, and have to do quite often. I have called college ball in one of the best college associations around- midsouth collegiate, and I know what I am doing, but like I said - in some leagues you have to break away from traditional umpire techniques, as long as you get the call right, and are professional.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by bigredmachine

My partner called him safe and he was correct, because of how his baseline was established after he rounded third, and also trying to avoid the collision.

1. The issue of baseline is irrelevant, as many posters have noted, until the defense plays on a runner. At that point, the runner must run directly toward his advance or previous base. When not being played on, runners can literally go wherever they want.

2. The runner is under no obligation to avoid a collision. Indeed, such a collision is generally to a runner's advantage, since the fielder with which he collides is at risk of being called for obstruction.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by bigredmachine

I have called college ball in one of the best college associations around- midsouth collegiate

The sentence sounds as if bigredmachine called college ball in one of the best college associations around in the past tense. It in no way implies he calls D-1 ball in the present or future tense.

ST

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

The sentence sounds as if bigredmachine called college ball in one of the best college associations around in the past tense. It in no way implies he calls D-1 ball in the present or future tense.

ST

ST,

Actually, the sentence implies that he has called college ball, not that he used to call college ball. "I have called" can be either past or present tense. A verb tense expressing an action that began in the past and which has been completed or continues into the present is known as the present-perfect tense. The present-perfect is formed by combining "has" or "have" with a past participle, which in this case is the word, "worked."

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

WE either have OBS or we do not. you DO NOT tell a coach "I could have called OBS on F2" because the fact is you didn't so IMO that point is moot.

In a later response you said Babe Ruth Fall ball league. I believe Babe Ruth is OBR based. If that's the case it sounds as if F2 needed to be where he was in order to field the thrown ball. That is a different definition than some other rule codes which includes NCAA / FED.

The bottom line in this OP is that a base runner establishes his baseline when the defense applys a tag on him. The runner was already PAST F2 so that point is also moot.

Sounds as though both you and your partner need to attend a good umpire clinic.

Pete Booth

It's Fall ball, Pete. And if they run their Fall league in a similar fashion to the way we run ours here, it's an instructional league for not just players, but for newer coaches as well. It's not out of the norm to let a coach in on some of our secrets during Fall ball. Just don't give the super secret sign away.......



Tim.

[griff901c]

fall ball sucks

griff

[ozzy6900]

• If you are the BU and the play is on the 3rd base line (other than assisting in a rundown), you have no business getting involved with the call. That is the PU's job!
• If the coach comes to you (Fall Ball or not) on a play as described above, you as the BU refer the coach to your partner and end the discussion.

Here is a perfect reason for you not being in this discussion. By your own description, the runner was making a wide turn and running down the line toward home. He ran past F2 and then F2 caught the ball. How do you as the BU have any input to this? This is where you have to learn to keep quiet and refer the coach to the PU..... no excuses!

[PeteBooth]

Tim I understand that this is Fall ball but NEW coaches also need to learn protocol

From the OP

I ruled the runner safe, because he established his baseline after he rounded third, and he was also avoiding a collision with the catcher. I also told the coach that I could have called obstruction on the catcher because he was in the runners basepath without the ball.

later on the poster also says that he was BU which makes this entire OP very confusing.

If he was BU what's he doing making the call in the first place? It belongs to the PU. Explain to the new coach "Skip please talk to the PU"

Then if your partner asks you for your input give it.

If it's learning then allow the PU to explain himself.

As mentioned this OP was not very clear to begin with.

Pete Booth

[bossman72]

A runner's baseline is not established until a fielder attempts a tag. In your original situation, the tag was attempted when the runner was behind the catcher, so it sounds like the issue of going around the catcher was moot.

As for the obstruction- the catcher was in the act of fielding the ball... no obstruction.

[Tim C]

"BigRed Machine" is also trying to convince us that he is a "major college umpire" . . . which I find a stretch . . . prove me wrong and I will apologize.

Regards,

PS: Didn't think so . . .

[btdt]

I think the baseline is always a straight line between each base.
The base path is what you are concerned about when the defense is making a play on a runner(s)
Sorry, it just bothered me. They tell me baseline and base path are different subjects and not interchangeable.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by btdt

I think the baseline is always a straight line between each base.
The base path is what you are concerned about when the defense is making a play on a runner(s)
Sorry, it just bothered me. They tell me baseline and base path are different subjects and not interchangeable.

I'm not sure who "they" are but the rulebook uses baseLINE.

7.08 Any runner is out when—
(a) (1) He runs more than three feet away from his baseline to avoid being tagged unless his action is to avoid interference with a fielder fielding a batted ball. A runner’s baseline is established when the tag attempt occurs and is a straight line from the runner to the base he is attempting to reach safely;

[bigredmachine]

This all started when I just wanted an opininon or explanation on what some other umps would have ruled. That way I knew my partner got the call right. Pete told me I needed to go to clinics, which I have to several. You guys start freakin out on me. I am not trying to convince anybody of anything, I have called college ball for 10 years, a few D1 non conference games, but mostly NAIA and JUCO. I had great evaluations, but I coach High School ball so I just do summer and fall ball now. Lighten up fellas.

Thanks for all the advice, that is why I joined the boards.

Originally Posted by bigredmachine

Lighten up fellas.

I can assure that is NOT going to happen here!