What is going on with ML baseball umpires

[UMP25]

Apparently you have difficulty discerning what the word "exception" means. I never said every single MLB Umpire is the absolute best (and I was thinking of Hunter when I first wrote that). Among the major professional sports, MLB Umpires are the best.

In the NFL I see far more blown calls than I do in baseball, and several guys are lard butts there, too. In hockey, they're darned good, perhaps giving MLB Umpires a run for their money. And the NBA? That's not even debatable. The officials there and the league--mostly the latter--are a joke. NBA Referees are, sadly, a shell of what they used to be quality-wise.

If one looks at all the calls made by officials in their respective games, I'd be willing to bet MLB Umpires come out on top in terms of their correctness.

[SethPDX]

Originally Posted by UMP25

Apparently you have difficulty discerning what the word "exception" means. I never said every single MLB Umpire is the absolute best (and I was thinking of Hunter when I first wrote that). Among the major professional sports, MLB Umpires are the best.

Nice name drop.

Originally Posted by UMP25

In the NFL I see far more blown calls than I do in baseball, and several guys are lard butts there, too. In hockey, they're darned good, perhaps giving MLB Umpires a run for their money. And the NBA? That's not even debatable. The officials there and the league--mostly the latter--are a joke. NBA Referees are, sadly, a shell of what they used to be quality-wise.

And this is what JRut is talking about: Football, basketball, and hockey are all sports in which the players and their opponents are moving quickly around the playing surface and usually making contact with each other. Officials in these sports have the difficult job of deciding what is legal and illegal contact, among other decisions. These sports require a different kind of judgment than just ball/strike, out/safe, and fair/foul.

And who in the NFL is a lard butt? They all look in pretty good shape to me.

Originally Posted by UMP25

If one looks at all the calls made by officials in their respective games, I'd be willing to bet MLB Umpires come out on top in terms of their correctness.

Maybe, but it's hard to classify some calls in those other sports as simply "correct" or "incorrect."

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by SethPDX

Nice name drop.

That's because it's true. Does anyone really think Hunter got an MLB job because he was some outstanding umpire?

[TussAgee11]

Apples to oranges.

Very rarely do we work in the "gray area"- either the ball got to the glove first or the foot got to the bag first.

In most other sports, there is that "gray area" - how much of a hold constitutes holding in football? How much body bump on a clean block in basketball is too much? In hockey, did that trip really cause the skater to fall, or was it a dive?

In JRut's opinion, it seems like MLB umpires can't be the best because of the sport they officiate - an overwhelming percentage of our calls are made when we are stationary, when we have plenty of time and space to get into position, and are "black and white" in nature.

There are some areas in which officiating different sports has similarities - game management, rules knowledge, confidence.

There are other areas where comparing is futile, and just wastes bandwidth

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by UMP25

Apparently you have difficulty discerning what the word "exception" means. I never said every single MLB Umpire is the absolute best (and I was thinking of Hunter when I first wrote that). Among the major professional sports, MLB Umpires are the best.

In the NFL I see far more blown calls than I do in baseball, and several guys are lard butts there, too. In hockey, they're darned good, perhaps giving MLB Umpires a run for their money. And the NBA? That's not even debatable. The officials there and the league--mostly the latter--are a joke. NBA Referees are, sadly, a shell of what they used to be quality-wise.

I am a football official. It is amazing how many of replay reviews in both college and the NFL that these guys get completely right. And in football there are no "phantom tags" or "unwritten rules" that have to be officiated. And NBA Officials are a lot better than any MLB Umpire. For one all NBA Officials are in shape and they get rid of officials that rate low. They do not keep a guy around or bring guys back if they cannot call the game properly. And as stated, MLB (or any baseball umpire for that matter), mostly has an either/or decision to make on the vast majority of plays. When they have to use judgment surrounding a series of factors, in your opinion they cannot even get those plays right (e.g. Upton play, Pierzynski play).

Originally Posted by UMP25

If one looks at all the calls made by officials in their respective games, I'd be willing to bet MLB Umpires come out on top in terms of their correctness.

Well considering how many games have been decided at the MLB Playoffs based on some very bad calls, I would dispute that. Most of other sports I see where there are there are precieved bad calls, are often based on misunderstanding of the media rather than an actual bad call (e.g. Tuck Rule). These are not plays that the vast majority of the officiating community disagrees with. I see way more umpires disagreeing with big calls in games during the baseball season, then I ever do when people talk about the other sports.

Peace

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am a football official. It is amazing how many of replay reviews in both college and the NFL that these guys get completely right. And in football there are no "phantom tags" or "unwritten rules" that have to be officiated.

Which is why baseball is much more difficult to work than you can understand. Perhaps you ought to work it some day.

And NBA Officials are a lot better than any MLB Umpire.

Puh-leeze! They're atrocious, as is the league these days.

I find it interesting that you seem to focus so much on an official's weight. Those officials who are overweight out there might not take kindly to this. (We'll see if they chime in.)

Oh, and I don't see any current or recently retired MLB Umpires spending time in jail for gambling/corruption, unlike some sport I know.

BTW, I have officiated football and basketball as well during my life.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by UMP25

I find it interesting that you seem to focus so much on an official's weight. Those officials who are overweight out there might not take kindly to this. (We'll see if they chime in.)

In all fairness to Rutledge, he said "overweight and have problems getting from point A to point B." Hopefully, he was combining these two elements. If he was just capping on fat people, then he's wrong.

If you have problems getting from point A to point B, you shouldn't umpire baseball, whether you're fat or not. There are plenty of skinny-a$$ umpires who can't get around a ball field as well as some of us big guys can. Just because you are overweight doesn't mean you are slow, or can't hustle from position to position.

I might have lost a step or two from when I started umpiring (very slim and trim) to when I stopped (hungry, hungry hippo), but I was already 3 or 4 steps ahead when I started, so I ended up still way ahead of the curve.

[tballump]

Barney Deary's cousin did not make it out of the umpire school. Drew Coble's son was in the minors but did not make it. John Clougherty's son was in the minors (baseball) and didn't make it, however he has made it to D1 in basketball. Baseball didn't work out for Steve Javie either and Johnny Stephens was his god-father, although that case seemed to be about a problem over a promotion. Lenny Dykstra's brother did not make it.

So, Crawford, Wendlestadt, Runge have taken a whole 3 positions due to their father's, rather than their own ability, or so it seems from reading here. Glad Crawford decided to go for it since he is one of the best just like his dad was. What a shame if he had not been allowed to try just because his father made it.

I guess Joey Crawford made it because of Shag and Steve made it because of his dad Stan from NFL football. Seems like Joey and Steve have the NBA finals every year.

Baseball does fire many umpires that do not perform well. Check out the AAA guys who work several years up in the big leagues but do not make it. That is Baseball's system of weeding out and firing of new umps that do not make the grade. I do not see many veteran NBA refs get fired as both Bavetta and Nies are over 65 and in the NFL, Austin is also over 65 and all these guys are close to 70. The weeding out is in the first couple of years in all sports and baseball does this with the guys working up in the "show" from AAA.

[realistic]

Don't forget about Brian Gorman, son of Lou Gorman, Bill Welke, brother of Tim Welke, and Marty Foster, son in law to George Spelius.

There are alot of MLB umpires that have connections to the top due to where they are from or who they know.

I am not saying that any of the umpires mentioned didn't earn it though.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by realistic

Don't forget about Brian Gorman, son of Lou Gorman, Bill Welke, brother of Tim Welke, and Marty Foster, son in law to George Spelius.

Brian Gorman's father was the legendary Tom Gorman, who played major league baseball and became an umpire after his playing career ended. Don't know who Lou is.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

In all fairness to Rutledge, he said "overweight and have problems getting from point A to point B." Hopefully, he was combining these two elements. If he was just capping on fat people, then he's wrong.

If you have problems getting from point A to point B, you shouldn't umpire baseball, whether you're fat or not. There are plenty of skinny-a$$ umpires who can't get around a ball field as well as some of us big guys can. Just because you are overweight doesn't mean you are slow, or can't hustle from position to position.

I might have lost a step or two from when I started umpiring (very slim and trim) to when I stopped (hungry, hungry hippo), but I was already 3 or 4 steps ahead when I started, so I ended up still way ahead of the curve.

Steve you are missing the point. The problem is there are a lot of MLB Umpires that if they had to go by the physical standards of other sports, they would never get those opportunities in the first place. And it is a lot easier to get from point A to point B in a baseball setting with 4 and 6 umpires on games than it ever is in a 1 or 2 person game (hell 3 umpires too). I know the NFL has suspended officials that are incapable of keeping their weight down and the NFL did not care if they could move well or not. In the NBA you would not even be considered if you did not look the part. I cannot think of any official that is not in great shape or clearly looks the part. You have to sprint from point A to point B all the time in basketball. You cannot afford to be complacent with a couple of steps.

When I see umpires at the MLB level that cannot make an easy call by taking a couple of steps, I know people wonder if they are physically capable to get in position. I know that is definitely the case when I work HS games with people and the physical abilities of my partners. Things have been said to me from coaches (many times well after the game) about how big someone is and how they cannot keep up. I know that goes through my mind when I work with someone that big or I watch someone that is that big. If someone credits me for my hustle and I barely ran down the line, I find that as a problem if you are comparing me to other umpires. There are umpires that get upset if you use proper mechanics because they have to run further so they say things like, "I am not running home to cover the plate when you are already there." But the mechanics clearly state that the BU comes back home to cover the plate in certain situations. I run more in any football game on just one play, not just one situation. I would have to consider giving up my other sports if running about 100 feet is a problem. If that is a problem, then you either need to get in shape or not take the damn game. I am sorry, your physical ability matters to not only me, but the people participating.

Peace

[SanDiegoSteve]

So, I was wrong in giving you the benefit of the doubt...you were just fat bashing. Okay.

No, I understand and see your point when comparing to other pro sports.