fukudome throws ball out of play

[midtnblu]

last night's storm shortened cub/astros game...

Carlos Lee hits single to right...Fukudome throws to the plate but throw goes out of play....when he released the ball, Lee had not yet reached 1st base(freeze frame on dvr had the ball headed towards the infield and Lee was just getting to 1st)...umpires placed him at 3rd.

Why???

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by midtnblu

Why???

Umpires didn't have access to freeze frame.

[johnnyg08]

Did Lou come out?

[midtnblu]

no lou didn't come out. I think everyone was watching the ball, including the umpiring crew.

When the ball went out of play, lee was between 1st and 2nd so they just "assumed" and sent him to 3rd.

[Rcichon]

Ball was still in play at the release? Carlos was beyond 1st when it went out of play?

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Rcichon

Ball was still in play at the release? Carlos was beyond 1st when it went out of play?

Why would it matter where Carlos was when the ball went out of play?

[w_sohl]

Because it was an outfielder that threw the ball out of play. That is sort of the reason. I believe rule of thumb is TOP if infielders and TOT if outfielders....

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by w_sohl

Because it was an outfielder that threw the ball out of play. That is sort of the reason. I believe rule of thumb is TOP if infielders and TOT if outfielders....

That still doesn't explain why it matters where Carlos was when the ball went out of play, only where he was when the outfielder threw the ball. Two bases from the TOT, not the time when the ball went out of play. See what I mean?

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by w_sohl

Because it was an outfielder that threw the ball out of play. That is sort of the reason. I believe rule of thumb is TOP if infielders and TOT if outfielders....

I don't think that's accurate.

[Rcichon]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Why would it matter where Carlos was when the ball went out of play?

It wouldn't. TOT, not TOWTBWOOP.

[LMan]

Originally Posted by Rcichon

It wouldn't. TOT, not TOWTBWOOP.

WOBW if TTIWWP.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by LMan

WOBW if TTIWWP.

WTFAYTA, LMAN?

[LMan]

Originally Posted by mbyron

WTFAYTA, LMAN?

QED.

[JJ]

From my years of umping I have discovered that for all intents and purposes, at the time of a throw from an outfielder on a base hit, it is generally accepted (meaning, it's generally not argued) that a batter-runner has reached first base by the time the ball gets to an outfielder, the outfield picks the ball up, and the outfielder throws the ball. Yes, it's a great idea to watch when those events occur, but depending on the number of runners and the number of umpires, realistically it sometimes just isn't possible. Fukodome's throw with one runner, one batter-runner, and FOUR umpires proved the point.

JJ

[gordon30307]

Originally Posted by JJ

From my years of umping I have discovered that for all intents and purposes, at the time of a throw from an outfielder on a base hit, it is generally accepted (meaning, it's generally not argued) that a batter-runner has reached first base by the time the ball gets to an outfielder, the outfield picks the ball up, and the outfielder throws the ball. Yes, it's a great idea to watch when those events occur, but depending on the number of runners and the number of umpires, realistically it sometimes just isn't possible. Fukodome's throw with one runner, one batter-runner, and FOUR umpires proved the point.

JJ

I saw the play in question (there was no way to tell where the BR was at TOT.) I think it's safe to say Lee was not at or beyond first base at the TOT. Just because they awarded him third doesn't mean they got it right.

In terms of your assumption that BR is at first at the TOT is erroneous. Think about it in a two man system when you're in the A how many time have you seen a line shot directly at the right fielder get there so fast that you think about a possibly play at first. Even on a big field on rare occaissions this play is attempted. If the right fielder does make the play and throws the ball in the dugout are you going to award BR third? I don't think so.