Score the run

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

I really don't give a crap anymore!

Originally Posted by Matt

Do you have any evidence that this is the case?

I will vouch for the fact that Ozzy doesn't give a crap anymore!

[SAump]

The fourth out may involve a missed base appeal. The B/R who misses a base allows for the possibility of a 4th out to be made on appeal by the defense. The fourth out resulting from a missed base appeal "force-out" often wipes off any runs scored during the playing action.

During a live ball, the 3rd out made on a timing play most often ends an inning. However in the OP, the 3rd out {a timing play} did not end this inning. The BR who never touched 1B allows the defense an opportunity to complete a legal inning ending double play. This advantageous fourth out wipes the run off the board.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

I will vouch for the fact that Ozzy doesn't give a crap anymore!

That, my friend, falls under res ipsa loquitur.

[charliej47]

The only time I can remember an automatic out call is when the HS rules stated that the umpire will call the runner out for a missed base. I saw this happen one time where U1 called out the batter-runner for not touching first which caused runs to be taken off the board.

[bobbybanaduck]

had three AA guys over for dinner tonight after their game. posed this situation to them and all four of us agree that the inning is over upon the tag of R2 and the run scores. one of them thought about the 4th out thing at first, but then we talked about appeals and that this sit. isn't an appeal. after they came to their decision, i told them i was on the same page as them, but, that fitzy had ruled as stated on here a number of years ago. all disagreed with that ruling.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by bobbybanaduck

had three AA guys over for dinner tonight after their game. posed this situation to them and all four of us agree that the inning is over upon the tag of R2 and the run scores. one of them thought about the 4th out thing at first, but then we talked about appeals and that this sit. isn't an appeal. after they came to their decision, i told them i was on the same page as them, but, that fitzy had ruled as stated on here a number of years ago. all disagreed with that ruling.

That was my thinking as well. Did you mention bob j's point about BR failing to touch 1B on a walk-off single, and that play being appealable?

[umpjong]

Originally Posted by bobbybanaduck

had three AA guys over for dinner tonight after their game. posed this situation to them and all four of us agree that the inning is over upon the tag of R2 and the run scores. one of them thought about the 4th out thing at first, but then we talked about appeals and that this sit. isn't an appeal. after they came to their decision, i told them i was on the same page as them, but, that fitzy had ruled as stated on here a number of years ago. all disagreed with that ruling.

I would have to agree with your guys. Appeals are made on infractions that occur before the third out of an inning occurs. I would think that once the third out in an inning is made, you cannot commit an infraction since the inning is over. Runners cannot advance after the third out is made in an inning, so how can we penalize a runner for not advancing after the third out is made?

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by umpjong

I would have to agree with your guys. Appeals are made on infractions that occur before the third out of an inning occurs.

That's not the correct reasoning. For one thing, the BR DID fail to reach 1B before the third out, so if that's an infraction it meets your criterion.

The issue is whether BR not advancing to 1B is an appeal play. It is not defined as such by the rules; however, bob jenkins points out a play where it is treated as an appeal play.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by bobbybanaduck

had three AA guys over for dinner tonight after their game. posed this situation to them and all four of us agree that the inning is over upon the tag of R2 and the run scores. one of them thought about the 4th out thing at first, but then we talked about appeals and that this sit. isn't an appeal. after they came to their decision, i told them i was on the same page as them, but, that fitzy had ruled as stated on here a number of years ago. all disagreed with that ruling.

They can disagree all they want, but they can't override the ruling.

[bobbybanaduck]

he's not the boss anymore.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by bobbybanaduck

he's not the boss anymore.

Did the new guy change it? If not it's still in effect.

Hopkins made the same ruling for FED.

A fair batted ball that hits the top of the fence and goes over is a home run. That isn't specifically in the rules either.

Coach's interference is still a live ball, apparently contrary to the rules.

[SAump]

Originally Posted by bobbybanaduck

he's not the boss anymore.

How do you explain the situation to the manger who refuses to allow his players off the field and also wants the run wiped off the board?

[bobbybanaduck]

Originally Posted by SAump

How do you explain the situation to the manger who wants the run wiped off the board?

"the inning is over when your guy tagged the runner from second."

[SAump]

Originally Posted by bobbybanaduck

"the inning is over when your guy tagged the runner from second."

The manager responds, "How can you award a base hit and an RBI when the BR failed to reach 1B before it was tagged?" OBR 6.05j or J/R 6B(2)(b), pg 51

See J/R 6A(5) EX 2 Note {pg 50}: "if the runner who failed to touch his advanced base in the example play was the batter-runner (desertion), then the third out was the batter-runner before first base, and the run cannot score by rule."

[UmpTTS43]

Has anyone considered contacting Jim Evans for his thoughts on this matter? I go to him on situations such as this.