Asking partner for help...

[canadaump6]

Is it acceptable to call time and approach your base partner to see if there was catcher's interference?

[RPatrino]

Sure, don't you call time on catcher's interference?? Lah me!!

[DG]

Originally Posted by Fritz

Would you have gone ahead and asked for the appeal? This wasn't a case of me getting blocked, blinking or in some other way missing the attempt and needing help. Should I have just quickly asked my partner to get his safe call so we can keep the game moving?

I tell my partner in pregame (regardless of rule set), I am automatic on check swings. I come to you if they ask, no matter where you are. So be alert and give me a strike back if I missed one. You might be surprised how many times you get a strike from your partner. And the defensive coach is not ticked because you would not go to your partner, which by rule you must in OBR.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by Fritz

Different scenario but curious as to how you would handle this -

2 man crew, I'm PU, partner in B with R1. Pitch comes in high and outside, batter starts a swing and checks. I have a clear view and call "no he did not, Ball!"

DC tells catch to have me appeal to my partner. Catch asks for an appeal and I respond to him and the coach "coach, my partner is in the middle of the field and doesn't have a better angle than I do."

As we settle in for the next pitch, Coach demands I ask for an appeal, says it is his right. I respond "Coach, I already explained why there is no point in doing so, let's play ball."

Coach continues to mutter under his breath, nothing loud enough for me to understand, and we go on without incident.

Would you have gone ahead and asked for the appeal? This wasn't a case of me getting blocked, blinking or in some other way missing the attempt and needing help. Should I have just quickly asked my partner to get his safe call so we can keep the game moving?

To start with, if you are doing OBR or NCAA, you had better go for help when asked because it is in the rules. FED is wishy-washy but I teach that it is better to go and avoid the problems.

Now as far as your partner being in the middle of the field, you seem to have a very low opinion of the people that you officiate with. I don't care what position the BU is in, he should be able to make a call on a checked swing. If he cannot, he shouldn't be on the field.

Furthermore, I teach umpires to loose that "you better go with me or walk home" Bull$hit! The Rats aren't stupid, so if asked for an appeal, give what you have, not what your partner has. Beside, why not take another strike? Oh, that's right! You are upset because you said "Ball! No he didn't go!" then your partner rings up the batter. We can fix that too! Just say "Ball!" and leave it at that! If they want an appeal, they will ask and you did not put yourself out on a limb that you partner can cut off and make you loose your pride!

[TxUmp]

Originally Posted by canadaump6

Is it acceptable to call time and approach your base partner to see if there was catcher's interference?

Why do we umpires persist in perpetuating this total misnomer? It is CATCHER OBSTRUCTION!! Not catcher interference.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by TxUmp

Why do we umpires persist in perpetuating this total misnomer? It is CATCHER OBSTRUCTION!! Not catcher interference.

Only FED uses the (sensible) term 'catcher obstruction'. In Canada, they use OBR-based rules, in which the term 'catcher interference' is correct.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by canadaump6

Is it acceptable to call time and approach your base partner to see if there was catcher's interference?

Depends on the circumstances. For most "common" CI, I find it hard to believe that BU would have a better view than PU.

[PeteBooth]

Makes absolutely no sense.

You are PU and say Ball No he didn't go

You then are asked to go to your partner for help

Now your partner is in a bind. If your partner rings up a strike he now made you look bad because you added the caveat "NO he didn't go" which is more emphatic then simply saying Ball. IMO, that is the crux of the OP. The PU gave an EMPHATIC "No he didn't go" so if he goes to his partner, hopefully his partner will mimic his call.

To each his own but if your partner gives an EMPHATIC call and you give the opposite call makes the team look bad.

Pete Booth

[TxUmp]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Only FED uses the (sensible) term 'catcher obstruction'. In Canada, they use OBR-based rules, in which the term 'catcher interference' is correct.

Interference is an act by the offense (or - rarely - by an umpire). Obstruction is an act by the defence. How can "catcher's interference" be the correct term, regardless of which rule book is used? I understand that "catcher's obstruction" is commonly used, but that doesn't make it correct.

[LMan]

Originally Posted by TxUmp

Interference is an act by the offense (or - rarely - by an umpire). Obstruction is an act by the defence. How can "catcher's interference" be the correct term, regardless of which rule book is used? I understand that "catcher's obstruction" is commonly used, but that doesn't make it correct.

Because that's what OBR calls it. See 6.08(c) Comment.

If you don't like, call MLB and the union and revise the CBA.

[LMan]

Originally Posted by RPatrino

Sure, don't you call time on catcher's interference?? Lah me!!

Heh. I would love to see this in person.

[Fritz]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

To start with, if you are doing OBR or NCAA, you had better go for help when asked because it is in the rules. FED is wishy-washy but I teach that it is better to go and avoid the problems.

Now as far as your partner being in the middle of the field, you seem to have a very low opinion of the people that you officiate with. I don't care what position the BU is in, he should be able to make a call on a checked swing. If he cannot, he shouldn't be on the field.

Furthermore, I teach umpires to loose that "you better go with me or walk home" Bull$hit! The Rats aren't stupid, so if asked for an appeal, give what you have, not what your partner has. Beside, why not take another strike? Oh, that's right! You are upset because you said "Ball! No he didn't go!" then your partner rings up the batter. We can fix that too! Just say "Ball!" and leave it at that! If they want an appeal, they will ask and you did not put yourself out on a limb that you partner can cut off and make you loose your pride!

Thanks for all the comments; part of my reluctance is because one of our senior guys that oversees a number of the fields is passionately against asking for check swing help when the partner is in the middle of the field. But you're right, what is the harm in doing it and avoiding arguments.

[SanDiegoSteve]

In my assocaiation, we were instructed back in the late 80s or early 90s to call, "Ball," and to drop the "No, he didn't go" part. The reason given was because it made the PU look like a boob when the BU overruled the call by saying, "Yes, he did" on appeal.

I like the way we were originally taught, which is to say, "Ball, no he didn't go" when we were certain that the batter didn't offer, and then not ask for help no matter how the defense begged. This way, the PU's call stood, and the defense could go pound sand.

The problem was that the PU (it happened to me a couple times) would say, "Ball, no he didn't go" and then the defensive coach would insist that you check with the BU. Sure enough, BU's were overruling the calls, making the PU look horsesh!t. The ones who overruled me got it wrong, because I wouldn't say "No, he didn't go" unless I was 100% certain.

I like an extra strike as much as the next guy. One strike closer to the end of the game. But this asking for help when help isn't necessary can lead to disaster if you have an incompetent BU reversing your calls and making you look bad.

[Dave Reed]

Originally Posted by LMan

Heh. I would love to see this in person.

Saw it last August at the !4U USSSA Elite 24 World Series , which is generally considered to be the biggest tournament of the year for this age group. Championship game, four man crew, the stadium at Disney Wide World of Sports, R2, R3, 2 outs. Catcher interferes, weak grounder to short, F6 throws to first, but first baseman has already walked away and B/R isn't running because time has been called-- by part of the crew.

It took 45 minutes to re-start the game, because the crew couldn't decide what to do. They did spend 10 minutes off the field, evidently in phone conversations. Ultimately they scored the two runners, and placed B/R at second base.

One good thing about talking 45 minutes to reach a decision: there was no comment of any kind from either team. They just resumed play.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Dave Reed

It took 45 minutes to re-start the game, because the crew couldn't decide what to do. They did spend 10 minutes off the field, evidently in phone conversations. Ultimately they scored the two runners, and placed B/R at second base.

Wow. I wonder whom they called. It sure wasn't Bob Jenkins.