Asking partner for help...

[gordon30307]

Originally Posted by BigTex

Why do this? Have some stones and tell the coach that it was MY call, I saw it, I do not need to check with anybody. If you are not looking for your partner's input, then don't get together. All you are doing there is giving the coach someone else to b!tch at. It is not your job to appease anyone.

It's got nothing to do with having the "stones to make the call". It has everything to do with getting him back in the dugout so we can play on and yes perhaps keeping him in the game.

Did I check with my partner? No it's my call. Does he think I checked yes. I did what he wanted. At this point after I say "hey my partner saw what I saw" 99.9% of the time he heads back to the dugout. Do I do this everytime he asks me to get help? Absolutely not. Most of the time the answer is "it's my call." The only time I do this is when I'm the base umpire and it involves a pulled foot or swipe tag. Rarely if ever will (can't remember the last time I did this) I look to my partner for assistance. In the event of a contorversial play who gets to clean up the mess? My partner because I was a lazy a** on the play and didn't get into position.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

1) The plate umpire has multiple things to watch -- and they might be happening at different locations.

2) Sometimes what a plate umpire "knows for certain" isn't what happened.

3) I've "never" had a coach ask to check if there wasn't some movement of the bat. If coaches are being a PITA about asking, then deal with that.

4) The time spent denying the request and then explaining it is longer thatn the time to check.

5) By tradition, if you don't check, you get the chit. If you ask, BU gets the chit (no matter the call).

I once had a college coach tell me I couldn't make a check swing call from the middle. My response (when he walked past me later and wanted to start needling me about the call) was, "I have to make that call. You only hire two umpires."

I ask every time. It's amazing how a few times a year I'm tracking a pitch and I'm CERTAIN the batter didn't offer, only to have my BU overturn my call of "Ball. No, he didn't go." Doesn't bother me a bit. "Then it's a strike. One ball, two strikes." Inside I'm giddy that I'm one strike closer to an out. Doesn't wound my pride or anything like that.

When I started working high school games in 1987, my plate umpire and his pillow told me that if he came to me with the palm up, I should just agree with his call of ball. First time he did that, the batter almost screwed himself into the ground and I called a strike. Teams were not surprised and partner asked about it afterwards - I told him what had happened and he told me that he was glad then that I did that so he wouldn't look bad.

Things have changed, though. I've called check swing strikes from A, B, C, and D the past few years and nobody gets worked up over where you are anymore, except for the occasional 40-year coach who should've retired 15 years ago and the occasional Old Smitty.

If I'm unsure whether the batter's offered, I'll go even without being asked. Why guess? The worst crap I see on a field is the plate umpire calling a swinging strike when the batter obviously didn't offer. The teams will wonder why you decided to take that yourself when you have a partner out there that can help on the call. Some of the less enlightened will not understand that you can only appeal a PU's call of ball and wonder why you didn't get help, of course, and there's not much you can do about that.

[TussAgee11]

Regarding seeing things from B or C...

2 weekends ago, top of the 1st in a AAU DH. Lefty pitcher starts towards home then comes to first. I get the balk. Coach yells something from dugout, I ignore.

Then coach comes out to about 5-10 feet away from me... and says "How can you see that from there?"

I said back "Somebody has to!"

Coach retreated back in pretty quickly.

[BigTex]

Originally Posted by gordon30307

It's got nothing to do with having the "stones to make the call". It has everything to do with getting him back in the dugout so we can play on and yes perhaps keeping him in the game.

Did I check with my partner? No it's my call. Does he think I checked yes. I did what he wanted. At this point after I say "hey my partner saw what I saw" 99.9% of the time he heads back to the dugout. Do I do this everytime he asks me to get help? Absolutely not. Most of the time the answer is "it's my call." The only time I do this is when I'm the base umpire and it involves a pulled foot or swipe tag. Rarely if ever will (can't remember the last time I did this) I look to my partner for assistance. In the event of a contorversial play who gets to clean up the mess? My partner because I was a lazy a** on the play and didn't get into position.

I did not say anything about having stones to make a call, have the stones to stand up to the coach. You are basically lying by "checking" with your partner, and the coach probably knows it. What are you going to do on the next close call and the other coach wants you to "get help?" If you stand up to the first call, the next time you won't have to huddle either. If you want to huddle every time a coach asks, just to appease him, go right ahead, but you better have a lot of ice in the cooler, because your beer will be warm by the time your marathon is over.

[gordon30307]

Originally Posted by BigTex

I did not say anything about having stones to make a call, have the stones to stand up to the coach. You are basically lying buy "checking" with your partner, and the coach probably knows it. What are you going to do on the next close call and the other coach wants you to "get help?" If you stand up to the first call, the next time you won't have to huddle either. If you want to huddle every time a coach asks, just to appease him, go right ahead, but you better have a lot of ice in the cooler, because your beer will be warm by the time your marathon is over.

Oh stop yourself. The freakin point passed right over your head.

Have a good rest of the weekend.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by gordon30307

It's got nothing to do with having the "stones to make the call". It has everything to do with getting him back in the dugout so we can play on and yes perhaps keeping him in the game.

Did I check with my partner? No it's my call. Does he think I checked yes. I did what he wanted. At this point after I say "hey my partner saw what I saw" 99.9% of the time he heads back to the dugout. Do I do this everytime he asks me to get help? Absolutely not. Most of the time the answer is "it's my call." The only time I do this is when I'm the base umpire and it involves a pulled foot or swipe tag. Rarely if ever will (can't remember the last time I did this) I look to my partner for assistance. In the event of a contorversial play who gets to clean up the mess? My partner because I was a lazy a** on the play and didn't get into position.

There's a much simpler solution if you want the coach back in the dugout. Just tell him to get back to his dugout! If he doesn't turn to go back, run his butt. The coach knows how to stay in the game, it's not up to us to help him do it.


Tim.

[BigTex]

Originally Posted by gordon30307

Oh stop yourself. The freakin point passed right over your head.

Have a good rest of the weekend.

Maybe you should try to make the point again. It seemed pretty clear in your post.

[Klokard]

guys, Guys, GUYS!!! It's all good.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Klokard

guys, Guys, GUYS!!! It's all good.

And with this stunning revelation, I do believe we can safely close this thread!

[David B]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I once had a college coach tell me I couldn't make a check swing call from the middle. My response (when he walked past me later and wanted to start needling me about the call) was, "I have to make that call. You only hire two umpires."

I ask every time. It's amazing how a few times a year I'm tracking a pitch and I'm CERTAIN the batter didn't offer, only to have my BU overturn my call of "Ball. No, he didn't go." Doesn't bother me a bit. "Then it's a strike. One ball, two strikes." Inside I'm giddy that I'm one strike closer to an out. Doesn't wound my pride or anything like that.

When I started working high school games in 1987, my plate umpire and his pillow told me that if he came to me with the palm up, I should just agree with his call of ball. First time he did that, the batter almost screwed himself into the ground and I called a strike. Teams were not surprised and partner asked about it afterwards - I told him what had happened and he told me that he was glad then that I did that so he wouldn't look bad.

Things have changed, though. I've called check swing strikes from A, B, C, and D the past few years and nobody gets worked up over where you are anymore, except for the occasional 40-year coach who should've retired 15 years ago and the occasional Old Smitty.

If I'm unsure whether the batter's offered, I'll go even without being asked. Why guess? The worst crap I see on a field is the plate umpire calling a swinging strike when the batter obviously didn't offer. The teams will wonder why you decided to take that yourself when you have a partner out there that can help on the call. Some of the less enlightened will not understand that you can only appeal a PU's call of ball and wonder why you didn't get help, of course, and there's not much you can do about that.

A great post by a veteran umpire who understands the game.

Don't guess, don't play games, just make the calls.

Thanks
David