Asking partner for help...

[TussAgee11]

First off, I don't care if we get an extra strike out of it. I just want to get it right, whether I'm PU or BU.

A technique I tell my partners is if I come up "softly" to you on an appeal, that means there is no way in hell he went. I'll often times delay my own point after the catcher's point, won't make it crisp, and will not include a LOUD, "Did he go?" I might also add a step to the side before I make my point.

If I'm truly in the dark, as soon as catcher points, I'm a beat behind him. My left hand is alot crisper with the mechanic and my "Did he go?" can be heard clearly by everyone. That is when I need help from BU, and he knows the difference.

Works well.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

First off, I don't care if we get an extra strike out of it. I just want to get it right, whether I'm PU or BU.

A technique I tell my partners is if I come up "softly" to you on an appeal, that means there is no way in hell he went. I'll often times delay my own point after the catcher's point, won't make it crisp, and will not include a LOUD, "Did he go?" I might also add a step to the side before I make my point.

If I'm truly in the dark, as soon as catcher points, I'm a beat behind him. My left hand is alot crisper with the mechanic and my "Did he go?" can be heard clearly by everyone. That is when I need help from BU, and he knows the difference.

Works well.

I'll tell you that I'll give you what I have either way. I don't believe in not changing a partner's call in this situation.

[bobbybanaduck]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

First off, I don't care if we get an extra strike out of it. I just want to get it right, whether I'm PU or BU.

A technique I tell my partners is if I come up "softly" to you on an appeal, that means there is no way in hell he went. I'll often times delay my own point after the catcher's point, won't make it crisp, and will not include a LOUD, "Did he go?" I might also add a step to the side before I make my point.

If I'm truly in the dark, as soon as catcher points, I'm a beat behind him. My left hand is alot crisper with the mechanic and my "Did he go?" can be heard clearly by everyone. That is when I need help from BU, and he knows the difference.

Works well.

this is not a secret to players and coaches at higher levels. if you do that you very well may be creating a lot of unnecessary crap for yourself.

[soundedlikeastrike]

Originally Posted by Klokard

Had an interesting one tonight but not at all uncommon. R1... B2 squares to bunt... pitch comes high and tight to a left hand batter. I am PU... all I see is pitch come in...I see the batter make a defensive manuver to get out of way. I hear a distinct "click" but also see the batter shake hand as he bails out. Catcher stood up to catch high and tight pitch which completely blocks my view. I shout "balls dead"... and leave everyone where they are. I bring in my partner who is in B for a quick conference to see if he saw anything definitive. He says "no". I come back, foul ball, strike 2. 3rd base coach chews a little stating there is no excuse to ask for help on that and that I booted the call. He obviously wanted the award of first base. Batter went on to single so it didn't matter in the end. Question,,,was I wrong for asking or should I have made a decision and stuck with it?

Of course it's alway good to make a ruling and stick with it, but of course it's also fine to go for help when it's needed.

Did F2 catch the ball? Did you hose the D outta of "foul tip?"

Heard a noise and saw the batter shake his hand and killed it, that reaction seems like you felt it struck the batter.
Why a foul ball?
HTBT but, what did you think it was? Why did you "call time" (hint, hint) like it struck him?
Instead of "foul ball", like you wound up ruling.

Originally Posted by TxUmp

Why do we umpires persist in perpetuating this total misnomer? It is CATCHER OBSTRUCTION!! Not catcher interference.

Because: 1. (Defensive players) obstruct a "baserunner.)
2 "interferes with a batter".
I've no idea why FED misquotes this..
nor why anyone would bye into it?? (Kidding there, relax..)

OBR:
INTERFERENCE
(b) Defensive interference is an act by a fielder which hinders or prevents a batter from hitting a pitch.

OBSTRUCTION is the act of a fielder who, .........., impedes the progress of any "runner."

As for the dinosaur that promotes "you can't call that from B or C" just that, a dinosaur..

If I "need" help, I have beaten the D to the punch, and my partner is ready (or he will walk his, ah, er, um, self home).

I would announce "No, he didn't go" on a bunt situation only.

[TussAgee11]

Originally Posted by bobbybanaduck

this is not a secret to players and coaches at higher levels. if you do that you very well may be creating a lot of unnecessary crap for yourself.

It hasn't caused any crap yet...

I only do it when it is deathly obvious that the batter didn't go, and the manager/catcher are just grasping for anything they can get. Used just in case partner had a bug in his eye or something

If there is a 1% chance that he could have gone, I'll gladly get some help. But sometimes, coaches/catchers know he didn't go and want the appeal anyway.

[SanDiegoSteve]

...or, "He didn't go, DID HE??"

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

It hasn't caused any crap yet...

I only do it when it is deathly obvious that the batter didn't go, and the manager/catcher are just grasping for anything they can get. Used just in case partner had a bug in his eye or something

If there is a 1% chance that he could have gone, I'll gladly get some help. But sometimes, coaches/catchers know he didn't go and want the appeal anyway.

The rule is intended to provide an honest second opinion. I ask my partners to do just that.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

A technique I tell my partners is if I come up "softly" to you on an appeal, that means there is no way in hell he went. I'll often times delay my own point after the catcher's point, won't make it crisp, and will not include a LOUD, "Did he go?" I might also add a step to the side before I make my point.

That type of "secret signal" went out a long, long time ago. It's now only used by those who are old-smitties. Don't be one of them.

[Tim C]

" . . . one of our senior guys that oversees a number of the fields is passionately against asking for check swing help when the partner is in the middle of the field. But you're right, . . . "

Ask this yoyo if he'll send me a PM and I'll explain to him that he is either to dumb to umpire (i.e. does not understand the checked/unchecked swing issue) or doesn't have enough guts to make the call (or have his umpires have the courage).

I HATE people that say you can't make this call from inside.

I never say: "No, he didn't go!"

Regards,

Added Note:

After reading some of the posts by our younger umpires (not Canadaump BTW) I believe in the axiom:

"Children should be seen and not heard."

[gordon30307]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

First off, I don't care if we get an extra strike out of it. I just want to get it right, whether I'm PU or BU.

A technique I tell my partners is if I come up "softly" to you on an appeal, that means there is no way in hell he went. I'll often times delay my own point after the catcher's point, won't make it crisp, and will not include a LOUD, "Did he go?" I might also add a step to the side before I make my point.

If I'm truly in the dark, as soon as catcher points, I'm a beat behind him. My left hand is alot crisper with the mechanic and my "Did he go?" can be heard clearly by everyone. That is when I need help from BU, and he knows the difference.

Works well.

I hate secret signals. If I go to you "give me what you got". What's the big deal.

[TussAgee11]

I guess the big deal about going to your partner is you have to do it even if you know you are 100% correct. Where else in the game does this happen?

(turning smart *** on) If its "smittyish" or "old-timer" to have that secret signal, then I guess I was trained by a smitty old-time umpire who works NCAA ball and is considered the best umpire in our association (smart-*** off).

If it is actually wrong to do this, then I'll stop. I don't understand why it's wrong, I think it's wrong that you have to go to your partner by rule, I think it's wrong that your partner could overturn the call that you know you had right.

I'll always ask if asked, even for appeasement purposes, not only because of my training but because of the rule (at least in OBR). But it don't mean I gotta agree with it!

And, I don't agree with not having double secret probation signals in some circumstances. I'd love to hear where or why this started becoming smitty-ish, or why the mindset on this changed.

Honestly, not trying to be stubborn. Because of the comments made here I will no longer come up softly on a check swing appeal. I just am curious to know why or how this mindset started, and the rationale (so perhaps I can convince others in the association to follow suit...)

Game 1 of not coming up softly begins in an hour and 30 mins, so I better scoot... probably about Game 10 since I became a "peeker"

-Tuss

[archangel]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

I don't understand why it's wrong, I think it's wrong that you have to go to your partner by rule, I think it's wrong that your partner could overturn the call that you know you had right.

Using secret signals to tell your partner not to disagree is just a way to circumvent the rule you dont like. How many different threads on rules have there been where ones have disagreed w/a rule but had to abide??? What if each one comes up w/ some signal to counteract it?
I guess I'm just not smart enough, considering that I work w/ multiple partners, and besides the normal pregame, would probably have trouble remembering a special thing my PU said, especially if it had to do with speed of a mechanic...I give what I see......

[canadaump6]

Originally Posted by Tim C

Added Note:

After reading some of the posts by our younger umpires (not Canadaump BTW) I believe in the axiom:

"Children should be seen and not heard."

Thanks Tee. You can even see me for free now that I've posted a video of me umpiring.

[DG]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

First off, I don't care if we get an extra strike out of it. I just want to get it right, whether I'm PU or BU.

A technique I tell my partners is if I come up "softly" to you on an appeal, that means there is no way in hell he went. I'll often times delay my own point after the catcher's point, won't make it crisp, and will not include a LOUD, "Did he go?" I might also add a step to the side before I make my point.

If I'm truly in the dark, as soon as catcher points, I'm a beat behind him. My left hand is alot crisper with the mechanic and my "Did he go?" can be heard clearly by everyone. That is when I need help from BU, and he knows the difference.

I care. If I missed a strike I want it back. As I mentioned earlier, I cover this in pregame, if they ask I come to you automatically so be alert. And I want your honest opinion.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

(turning smart *** on) If its "smittyish" or "old-timer" to have that secret signal, then I guess I was trained by a smitty old-time umpire who works NCAA ball and is considered the best umpire in our association (smart-*** off).

Ethics is not level related.

If it is actually wrong to do this, then I'll stop. I don't understand why it's wrong, I think it's wrong that you have to go to your partner by rule, I think it's wrong that your partner could overturn the call that you know you had right.

How is it wrong to follow the ruled?

And, I don't agree with not having double secret probation signals in some circumstances. I'd love to hear where or why this started becoming smitty-ish, or why the mindset on this changed.

It was back when we decided that it was coaches who could cheat, not umpires.