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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jun 16, 2008, 07:51pm
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Did I handle this situation correctly?

Kiddieball game. I am plate umpire. I notice first base coach is standing 2 to 3feet away from the base, call time, motion with my hand, and say "move over". Later in the game, he is standing there again and once again I tell him "move over" and "this is the last time I'm going to say it". Later on I catch him standing there, so I call time, walk up to him, and say "you're gonna have to go to the bench". He goes to the bench and we don't have any problems from then on.

Should I have tossed him rather than have him go to the bench? I didn't want to take extreme measures when he was being much more stupid than defiant. If I eject in these kinds of situations, not a lot of baseball is going to get played.
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Old Mon Jun 16, 2008, 08:08pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canadaump6
Kiddieball game. I am plate umpire. I notice first base coach is standing 2 to 3feet away from the base, call time, motion with my hand, and say "move over". Later in the game, he is standing there again and once again I tell him "move over" and "this is the last time I'm going to say it". Later on I catch him standing there, so I call time, walk up to him, and say "you're gonna have to go to the bench". He goes to the bench and we don't have any problems from then on.

Should I have tossed him rather than have him go to the bench? I didn't want to take extreme measures when he was being much more stupid than defiant. If I eject in these kinds of situations, not a lot of baseball is going to get played.
Perhaps rather than just a "move over" (and I would get away from the "OR ELSE" - at any level! no "....one more word!" or those kind of threats.....but I digress), seeing as how you stated "Kiddieball", a more effective tack might be to educate this up-and-comming "Rat".
Try: "Coach, I know that the lines are not clear but could you do me a favor and be in the box before the pitcher is ready?" "Thanks a lot Coach!". Or have a word with the Manager about it (really the only one you have to talk to anyway).

Now if he still continues - it ain't stupid - it's on purpose and he deserves a BF (with in reason....Kiddieball and all ).
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Old Mon Jun 16, 2008, 08:20pm
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was he bothering anybody other than you? if not, why not just let it go? there are more important things to worry about than where a coach stands.
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Old Mon Jun 16, 2008, 09:49pm
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As PU I'm probably not going to be bothered by where the coach's are. Now, when I'm in A, I will mention to the coach to move over a bit. I have never had anyone give me grief over that.

I think sometimes we go looking for boogers to pick.
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Old Mon Jun 16, 2008, 11:36pm
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Cool

canadaump6,

When there is some minor issue like this that I feel deserves my attention, I tend to approach it in a kind of low-key way. For the situation you describe, were I to feel it needed correcting, I would probably wait until the half-inning ended and go speak privately with the coach without drawing undue attention.

I would then say something like, "Coach, I need you to back off the line a good 3 steps while the ball's in play. You want to talk to your runner when he come back to the base, no problem. But I'd hate to have to call your runner out because I thought you interfered. Thanks."

And then I'd walk away and go stand on the baseline or short RF, depending. This technique seems to work pretty well for me. Emphasis on "courteous" and "firm". They almost always do what I say.

I must admit, like Bob P. and bobby, I'm a little puzzled as to why you thought this needed your attention.

JM

P.S. You've got a good post here. You've asked a question and gotten some good feedback. Ball's in your court.
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Last edited by UmpJM; Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 11:51pm.
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Old Tue Jun 17, 2008, 01:05am
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Unless the coach is interfering, blocking your vision in A, or the other team's coach is complaining of his being outside the box, I would suggest that you ignore such a minor detail. I certainly is not worth your going out of your way to enforce.

If the other team's coach complains, then enforce the rule for both teams and don't let either team's base coaches stand outside the box. But leave them alone unless one of them complains.

You really don't want to go out of your way to look for violations as if you were a police officer. That will get you a very bad rep quickly.
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Old Tue Jun 17, 2008, 01:17am
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Aplomb

Wasn't this Coach's Box ground rule a MLB POE?
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Last edited by SAump; Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 01:54am.
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Old Tue Jun 17, 2008, 07:43am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAump
Wasn't this Coach's Box ground rule a MLB POE?
Yes -- supposedly for "safety". I don't think it's in the rules book (I don't have it here to check), but rather is covered in some "administrative manual", along with the "base coach must wear a helmet" directive.
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Old Tue Jun 17, 2008, 08:29am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins
Yes -- supposedly for "safety". I don't think it's in the rules book (I don't have it here to check), but rather is covered in some "administrative manual", along with the "base coach must wear a helmet" directive.
Bob they put the coaches' box restriction in the book.

The Playing Rules Committee made the following changes that will be in effect for the 2008 season:

• Revised Comment to require a coach, until a batted ball passes him, to position himself no closer to home plate than the front edge of the coach’s box and no closer to fair territory than the side edge of the coach’s box. (Rule 4.05)

Rule 4.05 Comment: It has been common practice for many years for some coaches to put one foot outside the coach’s box or stand astride or otherwise be slightly outside the coaching box lines. Until a batted ball passes a coach, a coach is not permitted to position himself closer to home plate than the coach’s box nor closer to fair territory than the coach’s box. Otherwise, a coach shall not be considered out of the box unless the opposing manager complains, in which case the umpire shall strictly enforce the rule and require all coaches (on both teams) to remain in the coach’s box at all times.
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Old Tue Jun 17, 2008, 09:04am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiger49
Bob they put the coaches' box restriction in the book.
Thank you. I stand corrected.
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Old Tue Jun 17, 2008, 09:59pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)
I must admit, like Bob P. and bobby, I'm a little puzzled as to why you thought this needed your attention.
JM,
I can remember feeling Canada's pain.
Before I called, "Play" , I wanted the players and the equipment in the dugouts, I wanted all the coaches where they belonged, in a dugout or in a box.

I thought I could break the bad housekeeping habits that had been common in local leagues long before I showed up, just by following the book.

I wondered what was wrong with these teams that they don't know and understand the rules. I knew the rules; they should know them, too. I wondered where the bad habits originated.

I thought, the better I kept my field in order, the more likely the next umpire, that had these teams, would be blessed with more *tidiness*. And I worked hard at it !

So, when I subsequently watched game after game and other umpires and teams and playing fields in need of *housekeeping* on a regular basis, I eventually became jaded.

I decided not to fight 'em; I never enjoyed that part of umpiring, anyway. As long as there was no safety issue, I no longer gave a brown-spot in that regard.

Yet, as I continue to work games, it comes of no surprise to me, that the teams that more closely follow the guidelines are the teams with experienced managers, with disciplined players, and with winning records.

Anyway, ...I remember the pain.
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Old Tue Jun 17, 2008, 10:09pm
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mick,

Being fairly new at this, I think I know exactly what you're saying.

And, truth be told, I'm still pretty much "feeling my way along" in regard to this issue as well.

One of the things that complicates this question for me is that I work a LOT of different "levels". What is appropriate "housekeeping" at one level is very different from what is appropriate at another, as far as I can tell.

I thought canadaump6 made a good post and I am interested in the discussion. I'm trying to work on my "game management" skills, which I find deficient relative to where I'd like them to be, and I thought this thread offered an opportunity for me to learn something.

I don't know if my approach (described earlier) is good or bad, or right or wrong. I figured I'd get some informed feedback by posting it here.

JM
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Old Tue Jun 17, 2008, 10:14pm
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Thanks for the comments guys, I have taken your advice into account. The reason I wanted the coach to move back was because he might distract the first baseman, and because a base coach just isn't supposed to be 2 feet from the foul line. Rats will do anything at the kiddieball level, and it is very frustrating to try and enforce things such as giving the players space and not throwing the bat, then seeing other umpires let them get away with it.

It is also an aggravation to have to go out of my way to correct behaviour that would not be a problem in a higher level game, knowing that what I say will probably go in one ear and out the other anyways. Just takes patience I guess.
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Old Tue Jun 17, 2008, 10:19pm
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My take on the coach's box - 1) If the coach isn't hampering my ability to call the game, and; 2) If he's not being a pain in the arse, and; 3) The other coach isn't complaining then I don't have a problem. The vast majority of coaches aren't a problem. The few who are probably violate both rules 1) and 2).
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Old Tue Jun 17, 2008, 10:28pm
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Remember. Kiddieball, not likely much of a safety issue for the coach. Discuss quietly between innings and if he doesn't comply during his next appearance on offense give him the big finger and toss his sorry butt.
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