Assignor Nightmares

[David B]

But this is FED and the replay is limited to the coaches, assistants, and bench personell. Would the PA announcer be considered part of the team?

I would say no. It would be the same as if it were a parent in the stands with a bullhorn etc,.

Unsportsmanlike, surely, but not necessarily covered by the rules.

As Peter said, wouldn't you hate to have been given that game?

thanks
David

Mde

[bossman72]

Well, really, what would be the difference between the PA announcer saying he missed it, and a loud obnoxious dad yelling from the stands "Appeal First!!" One just has a louder voice. haha.

It sucks, but I think we don't have a choice but to allow the appeal. The PA announcer is then gone forever.

[johnnyg08]

No different than a fan yelling it out. If he missed the base, he missed the base...I would never work a game that had that announcer again...I would have your assigner demand that...effective immediately.

[PeteBooth]

[

QUOTE=David B]But this is FED and the replay is limited to the coaches, assistants, and bench personell. Would the PA announcer be considered part of the team?

I would say no. It would be the same as if it were a parent in the stands with a bullhorn etc,.

David from the OP

the home team announcer says over the PA system: "The telecast clearly shows that BR missed 1st base so you might want to appeal.

IMO, this is not equivalent to a Mom / Dad etc. yelling from the stands

The announcer basically said "according to replay (the telecast) B1 missed first base."

That IMO is WAY different then a parent saying Appeal First Appeal First.

I agree the umpires were in a pickle.

Peter has yet to post the outcome but my point was that the umpires could have gotten together and said that because of REPLAY the defense gained an unfair advantage not intended by the rules.

Pete Booth

[CO ump]

Originally Posted by bossman72

Well, really, what would be the difference between the PA announcer saying he missed it, and a loud obnoxious dad yelling from the stands "Appeal First!!" One just has a louder voice. haha.

It sucks, but I think we don't have a choice but to allow the appeal. The PA announcer is then gone forever.

If dad and the PA anouncer are equal, would you then eject dad for yelling?
I didn't think so, so at some level there is a difference worth ejecting over.

IMO, if you can eject PA for making the statement then you have grounds for not allowing the appeal

[socalblue1]

I suspect the announcer thought he was broadcasting TV only and not PA at that point (But who can be sure?).

CSFP result is no appeal permitted, R2 let's play. If the announcer was PA only he would be ejected for violating the no replay rule as he would be considered team staff.

[tiger49]

"The telecast clearly shows that BR missed 1st base so you might want to appeal."

The PA announcer knew he was doing PA. He is done. I would probably let the DM follow as I would not allow his appeal. Also my other two are probably the broadcast team as they would have given the PA guy the footage. If there is not two in the booth, I would gather that number 4 could've been the AD who probably would have put up a fight. One thing for sure everyone is out of the box except for the official scorekeeper.

[ODJ]

Originally Posted by tiger49

"The telecast clearly shows that BR missed 1st base so you might want to appeal."

The PA announcer knew he was doing PA. He is done. I would probably let the DM follow as I would not allow his appeal. Also my other two are probably the broadcast team as they would have given the PA guy the footage. If there is not two in the booth, I would gather that number 4 could've been the AD who probably would have put up a fight. One thing for sure everyone is out of the box except for the official scorekeeper.

I'd speculate all were in a very small booth with one monitor. Hard not to look.

[DTQ_Blue]

Sounds like the type of situation that your umpiring association should bring to the attention of the the State high school association. Let them decide what to do about it. I don't see that umpires on the field have any thing in the rules to guide them on this type of matter.

[Rich Ives]

How about this way?

The PA announcer isn't dad-in-the-stands. The PA announcer is a game/team official. That's why you can eject him.

The PA announcer violated 3-3-1-f and 10-1-5.

Disallow the appeal as it was illegally discovered. 10-2-3-g

[His High Holiness]

Like I said, I was not the assignor or the umpire so I do not know all the details of what happened. It was not even a game in my association. (Old assignors still talk to other assignors. )

I do not know any of the details of what happened in the press box other than the PA announcer was the bad guy.

The BU refused to make any call. He was new and had little experience but knew better than to call R2 out without consulting with the plate man. The two of them got together and while they were conferring, R2 and the pitcher got into a verbal confrontation and were both ejected. I am not sure exactly what their confrontation was about but we can assume it was about the missed base.

The defensive manager (home team) began yelling that he had signalled the pitcher prior to the offending PA announcement to make an appeal. The pitcher and the dugout loudly backed him up. The parents/fans from both teams joined in the action.

The offensive manager calmly approached the umpires and asked to talk privately. The defensive manager asked to join the conversation and was told to instead get the crowd under control. The defensive manager was eventually ejected but I do not know if it was failure to get the crowd under control or insisting that he was going to make an appeal even before the PA announcement. Anyway, the offensive manager told the umpires that he had seen the missed base and asked them to call R2 out so they could move on. The visiting team had a poor record and the game did not matter anyway. The offensive manager was on probation for previous problems with his behavior and that of his players and he could not afford any more negative situations. He was not sure if he could survive the ejection of R2 and did not want any more fuel on the fire. He asked for a minute with his players in the dugout to prepare them before the umpires announced their decision. He was in the first base dugout and acknowledged that most of the dugout had seen the BR miss first base.

While the offensive manager was in the dugout with his players, the AD for the home team walked on the field and asked the umpires to stop the game. The umpires never had to make the call and everybody went home with a little encouragement from the police who had arrived by this time.

I have no idea how the game was resolved.

This is why umpires should be well seasoned before they move up. Rules knowledge, bionic ball/strike - safe/out calling, and gazelle like pro mechanics do not prepare the umpire for crap like this. Regrettably, crap like this is normal in baseball. The only thing that saved these umpires was that two adults happened to show up for the game - the visiting manager and the home team AD.

Peter

[Rich]

Originally Posted by His High Holiness

This is why umpires should be well seasoned before they move up. Rules knowledge, bionic ball/strike - safe/out calling, and gazelle like pro mechanics do not prepare the umpire for crap like this. Regrettably, crap like this is normal in baseball. The only thing that saved these umpires was that two adults happened to show up for the game - the visiting manager and the home team AD.

Peter

It's this kind of seasoning I have referred to in the past as:

"It is the ability to step on someone's throat when necessary, while not getting any blood on your shoes."

I agree with Rich Ives. Forced to make this appeal decision, I wouldn't have and would've told the defensive manager to pound sand and then stepped back to enjoy the aftermath. People are stupid.

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

How about this way?

The PA announcer isn't dad-in-the-stands. The PA announcer is a game/team official. That's why you can eject him.

The PA announcer violated 3-3-1-f and 10-1-5.

Disallow the appeal as it was illegally discovered. 10-2-3-g

Nice Try Rich.

Unless the PA announcer is considered an "attendant or other bench personnel" (I think that is a stretch), 3-3-1-f would not apply. He is not a game official either (the umpires are), so 10-1-5 has not been violated. As for the "illegally discovered appeal," I think that is inventing new rules rather than making a decision on a point not covered by the rules (10-2-3-g).

I would allow the appeal. I would also allow a protest by the visiting team and let the suits decide the penalty (if any).

I do like your style Rich. If there is a way to dump the PA announcer, I'm all for it.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

Nice Try Rich.

Unless the PA announcer is considered an "attendant or other bench personnel" (I think that is a stretch), 3-3-1-f would not apply. He is not a game official either (the umpires are), so 10-1-5 has not been violated. As for the "illegally discovered appeal," I think that is inventing new rules rather than making a decision on a point not covered by the rules (10-2-3-g).

I would allow the appeal. I would also allow a protest by the visiting team and let the suits decide the penalty (if any).

I do like your style Rich. If there is a way to dump the PA announcer, I'm all for it.

10-1-1 includes the words "team attendant". Use the meaning liberally. It has language similar to OBR 9.01(b) [below]


9.01 (b) Each umpire is the representative of the league and of professional baseball, and is authorized and required to enforce all of these rules. Each umpire has authority to order a player, coach, manager or club officer or employee to do or refrain from doing anything which affects the administering of these rules, and to enforce the prescribed penalties.

Also see PBUC 1.26 - The PA anouncer at pro games is part of the home team.

[PeteBooth]

Rich IMO even seasoned umpires would not have anticipated this UNLESS in the area where Peter is talking about it's Commonplace to have PA announcers.

The ONLY time I have done games with PA announcers is for Playoffs and Tournaments.

Also, from the actions of the DM it sounds like this guy "was a real piece of work"
He is responsible for Riling his players and the crowd and in FED under rule 3 there is a Penalty (ejection) associated with this.

FWIW people need to chill out. Police arrival, game stopped most likely because of crowd problems, etc. all because of what is supposed to be a simple baseball game.

Pete Booth