Runner attempts to advance during dead ball

[socalblue1]

R2 most defiantly would NOT have got one in his ear because he would no longer be in the game...

IMO Proper ruling:

1. Need new R2 and 3B coach. Should HC even think of whining he would be gone too. I have no patience for this type of BS, esp at the college level.

2. New R2, new 3B coach. No other changes - no place in the rules to get an out here.

Q - Was U3 sleeping or what? He only has two jobs here - help PU keep track of the number of warm up pitches (If PU is occupied with other things) and make sure base runner(s) return to the proper base.

[UMP25]

You'd better be able to justify ejecting these two under NCAA and OBR (I don't do FED ball so won't comment on that). Is what R2 did lame? Probably. But I doubt I'd outright eject R2 or the coach. I try to avoid EJs as much as possible. I'd most likely call time and tell R2 in a somewhat scolding but not irate tone something like, "All right, get back to second where you belong...".

[bluezebra]

Originally Posted by UMP25

You'd better be able to justify ejecting these two under NCAA and OBR (I don't do FED ball so won't comment on that). Is what R2 did lame? Probably. But I doubt I'd outright eject R2 or the coach. I try to avoid EJs as much as possible. I'd most likely call time and tell R2 in a somewhat scolding but not irate tone something like, "All right, get back to second where you belong...".

Justification? How about FLAGRANT UNSPORTSMANLIKE CONDUCT. You cheat, you're history.

Bob

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by bluezebra

Justification? How about FLAGRANT UNSPORTSMANLIKE CONDUCT. You cheat, you're history.

Bob

I suppose if you're a frickin' Little League umpire, sure. But you're making a mountain out of a mole hill. If tossing guys for stuff like this gives you jollies, fine. I'd prefer to avoid the EJ and still take care of the situation, thereby avoiding a huge mess a trigger-happy EJ is likely to cause.

[bluezebra]

Originally Posted by UMP25

I suppose if you're a frickin' Little League umpire, sure. But you're making a mountain out of a mole hill. If tossing guys for stuff like this gives you jollies, fine. I'd prefer to avoid the EJ and still take care of the situation, thereby avoiding a huge mess a trigger-happy EJ is likely to cause.

'Trigger-happy' my rosy red rump. It's unsportsmanlike at ANY level. Avoid the ejection because you have no cojones, but it's still a gross violation, no matter what YOU think. If you were the BU in this situation, and didn't have the guts to get rid of the runner and the coach, I would never work with you again. I want partners who punish situations like this. And think (if you can) about this. If you're the base ump, they just made a fool out of you.

Bob

[SanDiegoSteve]

SoCalBlue is no LL umpire, and he certainly would eject in this case. It was blatant unsportsmanlike conduct IMO, and I concurr with SoCal on this one.

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

SoCalBlue is no LL umpire, and he certainly would eject in this case. It was blatant unsportsmanlike conduct IMO, and I concurr with SoCal on this one.

"Blatant unsportsmanlike conduct," huh? There are far worse things in baseball that earn ejections than trying to be an @ss and not returning to a base. Umpiring in a black and white world, something more common of L.L. umpires or new guys, doesn't work well.

If a pitcher's got vaseline on him or takes the ball and is caught scratching it against his belt buckle, those are what I'd be more apt to classify as "blatant unsportsmanlike conduct"--far worse "cheating" than acting like a juvenile and not going back to a base after a foul ball.

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by bluezebra

'Trigger-happy' my rosy red rump. It's unsportsmanlike at ANY level. Avoid the ejection because you have no cojones, but it's still a gross violation, no matter what YOU think.

Son, don't ever tell me I don't have cojones. I haven't gotten where I've gotten by being timid.

If you were the BU in this situation, and didn't have the guts to get rid of the runner and the coach, I would never work with you again.

Good, because I wouldn't want to work with someone who believes some big time ejection is the answer to everything or that mountains must be made out of mole hills. I handled it quite well, retained the respect of everyone involved, and avoided a bigger mess that two ejections would have caused. I have had my share of ejections over the years, and my first one this year might even have been classified as kind of quick, but in the OP's case, based simply on what he wrote, I wouldn't have ejected and would have still been respected.

I want partners who punish situations like this.

Then go work in a court or prison.

And think (if you can) about this. If you're the base ump, they just made a fool out of you.

Whatever you say from the comfort of your chair. In 30 years of umpiring I've never been made a fool and still command respect by my work ethic and performance.

[bluezebra]

Originally Posted by UMP25

Son, don't ever tell me I don't have cojones. I haven't gotten where I've gotten by being timid.



Good, because I wouldn't want to work with someone who believes some big time ejection is the answer to everything or that mountains must be made out of mole hills. I handled it quite well, retained the respect of everyone involved, and avoided a bigger mess that two ejections would have caused. I have had my share of ejections over the years, and my first one this year might even have been classified as kind of quick, but in the OP's case, based simply on what he wrote, I wouldn't have ejected and would have still been respected.



Then go work in a court or prison.



Whatever you say from the comfort of your chair. In 30 years of umpiring I've never been made a fool and still command respect by my work ethic and performance.

I had 44 years of umpiring. If someone pulled that stunt, and you didn't eject, you definitely were made a fool of. Just telling a coach and runner, "Don't do that", is not even a slap on the wrist. Cheating, and that's what it is, is cause for ejection.

"Son, don't ever tell me I don't have cojones. I haven't gotten where I've gotten by being timid."

Son? I probably started umpiring before you were born.


Bob

[UES]

Originally Posted by UMP25

You'd better be able to justify ejecting these two under NCAA and OBR (I don't do FED ball so won't comment on that). Is what R2 did lame? Probably. But I doubt I'd outright eject R2 or the coach. I try to avoid EJs as much as possible. I'd most likely call time and tell R2 in a somewhat scolding but not irate tone something like, "All right, get back to second where you belong...".

I agree with Ump25 - as bushleague as it is, I would just send the runner back to second and probably get in his grill a little bit. I do make note of the base runners during pitching changes because the runners may switch bases (ie have the faster runner go to second base and the slower runner go to first base). As a base umpire, after I go get the relief pitcher out of the bull pen, I flash the number of the incoming pitcher to my plate umpire and then make a mental note of what runners on where on the bases. If I'm really feeling motivated, I may even keep track of the warm up pitches in case my partners busy recording the change or talking with the coach. If that's the case, I'll just flash the number four to my partner so he know's four warm up pitches have been already thrown and/or the relief pitcher has four more left. Just goes to show that you never stop umpiring, even when there's nothing going on

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by UES

Just goes to show that you never stop umpiring, even when there's nothing going on

I agree with the first part, but take it to mean that during a game there's always something going on for the attentive.

I'm not (yet) NCAA, but I can't imagine that NCAA would condone this kind of thing. No one plausibly claims this was an accident, which means that it's blatant cheating. It certainly gets an EJ in FED.

So some of you would EJ a player for calling you horseshït, but not for this?

[TussAgee11]

Any umpire who doesn't EJ 3rd base coach and R2 doesn't have a backbone in my opinion.

I try to stay away from EJ's too, but sometimes you have to take care of business. Both those participants CHEATED. That needs to be penalized more than just fixing what they tried to cheat with.

And as PU, I'm cutting off defensive manager. "Skip, I'll take care of it, I need you back to your dugout so I can though, and I can't have you yelling across the field at him. Let me do that for you".

You leave R2 in the game and he's getting the next one in his ear. Then we have a war. You still not going to eject anyone then?

Throw these clowns out.

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

Any umpire who doesn't EJ 3rd base coach and R2 doesn't have a backbone in my opinion.

I try to stay away from EJ's too, but sometimes you have to take care of business. Both those participants CHEATED. That needs to be penalized more than just fixing what they tried to cheat with.

Wow. The naivete in this thread is quite amazing. So you're gonna eject people for cheating, huh? (Earth to Tuss: Players often cheat all the time and get away with it.) Then I can't wait to see the next time a guy gets beaned by the pitcher who is simply "sending a message" to a batter who showed him up in his previous bat home run. I'd bet you'd toss the pitcher in a heartbeat. The game takes care of itself at times.

I'll share this truth with y'all: I actually had a runner do what is stated in this thread. The runner on a foul advanced to the next base and stayed there. The third base coach even said, loud enough for me to hear, "Just stay here."

I was on the bases when my partner was about to point the ball back into play. I put my hands up and said, "Hold on!" As I looked at R2 standing on third, with a stern look I yelled toward him, "Very funny. Now get back to second where you belong."

Both the runner and the coach knew I wasn't happy. I'm sure they probably even realized I could have ejected them, but I didn't. And I haven't lost one ounce of respect since then.

[SAump]

Does the rulebook suggest a penalty be involked in this case? A player warning/ejection may be merited for this unsportsmanlike act, under rule 3-3g-4, along with bench restriction or ejection of coaches. Yet our solution may be as simple as fix it and move on. Need further guidance from someone w/ more info/experience to determine the actual nature of this offense.

Posted older link from 2005 baseball side of website below. 1/2 call for DP, 1/2 call to fix it.
Base Running Error?
Posted similar link from 2004 softball side of website below. Calls for DP.
What's the reasoning?
Posted older link from 2003 softball side of website below. Calls for DP and provides {2003} FED softball case ruling, situation 10.
switching of bases
Note all 3 links above involve 2 runners switching bases, not one advancing a base, during a dead ball.

[ctblu40]

Originally Posted by UMP25

Then I can't wait to see the next time a guy gets beaned by the pitcher who is simply "sending a message" to a batter who showed him up in his previous bat home run. I'd bet you'd toss the pitcher in a heartbeat. The game takes care of itself at times.

Earth to UMP25... if you thought he threw at the batter on purpose and you don't step in, then you're not doing your job!

Sometimes as an umpire you need to step in and take care of business (I would probably run R2 in the OP)... it's not always popular, but it still needs to be done. Don't let the inmates run the asylum!