Spin off of our OBS/INT discussion.

[TussAgee11]

If you recall the thread about the coach's INT after OBS.

Compare it to this. What principles carry over and what do not:

2 runners are beginning to round 3rd when F5 obstructs the preceeding runner (R2). The runner's are so close that a) The following runner (R1) passes the preceeding runner because he can't stop in time or b) the following runner has to slow down to avoid passing.

Seems to me in both situations we have a direct result of OBS, unlike in the coach's INT sitch.

Therefore in a, allow play to continue and protect R2 where you need to, in order to nullify the act of OBS. Also in order to nullify, ignore the passing.

In both a and b, you might need to start protecting R1 (following runner) to a base as well, as he might slow down in order to allow the preceeding runner to repass.

I feel confident in these interps.

However, what if R1 (following runner) does not slow down and just keeps on trucking all the way to home. Could we have the R1 scoring before R2 and allow it if we choose to nullify the act of OBS???

This is the stuff that makes s***houses.

[bob jenkins]

Both FED and NCAA say a runner is out if he passes an UNOBSTRUCTED preceeding runner.

I'm not protecting / rewarding the defense for causing this mess -- allow both runs.

[TussAgee11]

But 7.08 h in OBR does not make that unobstructed stipulation...

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

But 7.08 h in OBR does not make that unobstructed stipulation...

True, but OBR's language includes awarding bases so as to "nullify the act of obstruction."

[TussAgee11]

So it is possible to to have the #4 batter score and the #3 batter standing on 3rd if you only protected him to third.

This is what I'm getting at.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

So it is possible to to have the #4 batter score and the #3 batter standing on 3rd if you only protected him to third.

This is what I'm getting at.

If you have obstruction on a runner rounding third, and the one right behind him scores, you would be awarding home anyways wouldn't you?

How would this situation be handled? Announcement of "That's obstruction!" and let the play continue so that we now have the runners out of order on the basepaths or should the base runners have to correct this as soon as possible?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

So it is possible to to have the #4 batter score and the #3 batter standing on 3rd if you only protected him to third.

This is what I'm getting at.

No. If the #4 batter scores then your protection of the #3 batter should have been to home.

[TussAgee11]

OK let me rewrite the sitch in more detail and change some things so perhaps my point will get across. It is possible that my point has already gotten across, and I don't know it, but hear me out.

R1. BR hits fly ball to RF which appears as though it will be caught. R1 stays close to bag. BR closes in on him. RF misplays the ball and it lands over his head. Both R1 and BR head for 2B. R1 is obstucted by F6 as he rounds 2nd. This causes BR to pass and continue to 3rd. At this point the ball was coming back into the infield, and you feel the protection that will nullify the act of OBS is R1 to 3rd.

BR is now ahead of R1. There is a play at 3rd and the ball squirts away from F5.

BR advances home. R1 is still standing on 2nd. Play is over.

R1 to 3rd on your OBS. BR's run is good.

Is this correct?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

OK let me rewrite the sitch in more detail and change some things so perhaps my point will get across. It is possible that my point has already gotten across, and I don't know it, but hear me out.

R1. BR hits fly ball to RF which appears as though it will be caught. R1 stays close to bag. BR closes in on him. RF misplays the ball and it lands over his head. Both R1 and BR head for 2B. R1 is obstucted by F6 as he rounds 2nd. This causes BR to pass and continue to 3rd. At this point the ball was coming back into the infield, and you feel the protection that will nullify the act of OBS is R1 to 3rd.

BR is now ahead of R1. There is a play at 3rd and the ball squirts away from F5.

BR advances home. R1 is still standing on 2nd. Play is over.

R1 to 3rd on your OBS. BR's run is good.

Is this correct?

Replay the play in your mind, but without the obstruction. What would have happened? (It's impossible for me to tell from your post). Do that. (and, in FED be sure R1 is awarded at least third).

[TussAgee11]

Perhaps than Bob my mind is working in its non existent 6th gear when all I really need is neutral.

In FED, since R1 must be given 3rd, than I guess BR is forced into scoring??

In OBR, to simply nullify, if the OBS never happened, we would have had R1 at 3rd and BR at 2nd, in the correct order. We ignore the passing and then just switch them back to the way it would have been had no OBS occurred.

My head hurts.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

In FED, since R1 must be given 3rd, than I guess BR is forced into scoring??

How can BR score "in advance of" a runner previously on base? (Hint: He can't).

[TussAgee11]

Because as you pointed out in an earlier post, in FED a runner is only out for passing if he passes an UNOBSTRUCTED runner.

So if he passes an OBSTRUCTED runner, there is no penalty.

I can't figure out why this can't happen, or if it happens, what to do about it.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

Because as you pointed out in an earlier post, in FED a runner is only out for passing if he passes an UNOBSTRUCTED runner.

So if he passes an OBSTRUCTED runner, there is no penalty.

I can't figure out why this can't happen, or if it happens, what to do about it.

He can pass him without being declared out, but you're going to put them back in the proper order when you make the awards.

[Shmuelg]

You guys, you know an award for obstruction can be more than one base.

So, it seems to me, in light of the overthrow at 3rd, that R1 would have been there, and then scored. That that BR scored was probably because R1 wasn't there, and I would certainly award R1 home, and probably BR as well, because he actually got there.

Sound OK?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Shmuelg

You guys, you know an award for obstruction can be more than one base.

So, it seems to me, in light of the overthrow at 3rd, that R1 would have been there, and then scored. That that BR scored was probably because R1 wasn't there, and I would certainly award R1 home, and probably BR as well, because he actually got there.

Sound OK?

Yes -- if that's how you view(ed) the play.