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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Mar 29, 2004, 07:11am
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Question

As I understand it, it is legal these days to have a simultaneous dribble and step followed by two steps.
With a spin move it's always dribble then plant, then two steps. Sometimes there's an extra replant step(now we're at four steps) in there during the spin. Is this three steps after the dribble move legal? Nobody ever calls it because it looks like a fluid motion.
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Old Mon Mar 29, 2004, 07:25am
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Not sure what you're getting at, but I'll try to answer you. There is no restriction to the number of steps a dribbler can take between legal dribbles. He can take 10 steps if he can squeeze them in. During a spin move, what sometimes happens is that the ball comes to rest in the dribbler's hand, in the official's opinion. If it does, that ends the dribble by rule, and a pivot foot is now established at the same time. If the player continues with the spin move and tries to dribble again, he can be called for travelling if he moved that pivot foot beyond legally allowed limits, or he could be called for an illegal 2nd dribble if the pivot foot stayed legal but the the player dribbled again.

Is that what you were looking for?
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Old Mon Mar 29, 2004, 07:43am
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I'm sorry, I forgot to mention that in the sequence I described the dribble has been picked up, then the 3 step spin resulting in a shot attempt of some kind, usually near the basket.
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Old Mon Mar 29, 2004, 08:46am
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Quote:
Originally posted by muresan
I'm sorry, I forgot to mention that in the sequence I described the dribble has been picked up, then the 3 step spin resulting in a shot attempt of some kind, usually near the basket.
It's traveling. I don't know why many officials ignore it but it is traveling.
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Old Mon Mar 29, 2004, 09:24am
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Quote:
Originally posted by BktBallRef
Quote:
Originally posted by muresan
I'm sorry, I forgot to mention that in the sequence I described the dribble has been picked up, then the 3 step spin resulting in a shot attempt of some kind, usually near the basket.
It's traveling. I don't know why many officials ignore it but it is traveling.
I suspect that sometimes officials (myself included) ignore it, because they didn't see it. A quick spin move toward a shot with a couple of defenders moving in to block the shot is a lot to keep track of. And if the dribbler spins away from the ref, the whole thing can be out of sight. When I get brought up short, I'll try to pay more attention to the next one.
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Old Mon Mar 29, 2004, 09:30am
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It's not that difficult to spot. Watch the feet.

A player ends his dribble with both feet on the floor, spins to the right, stepping with his right foot, then steps with his left foot(pivot), around to square up to the basket.

That's traveling.
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Old Mon Mar 29, 2004, 09:32am
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Quote:
Originally posted by BktBallRef
It's not that difficult to spot.
Well, no, not for a state championship ref with umpteen years under his belt. Some of us are still, well, not quite "there" yet.
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Old Mon Mar 29, 2004, 10:42am
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I can also tell you that I have demonstrated to my players several different post spin moves that are all legal, but appear at first glance to be travels. I had one parent of a post player try to tell me I was teaching his daughter to travel, until I went through it in excrutiating slow motion - and he was dumbfounded.

You have to time when you pick up the ball and you will be fine if you do. and if you do it quickly, there will be many who think you travelled.
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Old Mon Mar 29, 2004, 12:07pm
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Exclamation

As an offical, BktBallRef, we are not looking at the feet of the offensive player. We are refing the defense. Ref the defense. And by the way, we ref the defense. You know that as the experienced official on this site, right? 'k.
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Old Mon Mar 29, 2004, 12:09pm
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If you never see the feet, do you never call travels? You have to see it to call it.
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Old Mon Mar 29, 2004, 12:22pm
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Yes I do. However, ref the defense. Monitor the offense, not watch the feet. Watch the defense.
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Old Mon Mar 29, 2004, 12:33pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by reffish
As an offical, BktBallRef, we are not looking at the feet of the offensive player. We are refing the defense. Ref the defense. And by the way, we ref the defense. You know that as the experienced official on this site, right? 'k.
You're kidding,right?

Please do NOT use "we". Use "I".
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Old Mon Mar 29, 2004, 12:37pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by reffish
Yes I do. However, ref the defense. Monitor the offense, not watch the feet. Watch the defense.
If you want to parse words, perhaps Tony could have said see the feet during the move. And if you don't, you can't call the travel. And if you let the travel go, you aren't doing your job, no matter how well you reffed the defense on that play. If my defender got toasted by an illegal spin move and all you saw with any clarity was my defender, I am not a happy coach.
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Old Mon Mar 29, 2004, 05:42pm
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Unhappy

Okay, Tony was not clear. Apparently I was not clear also. I do not stare at the offensive player's feet to look for a travel. I am aware of his pivot foot and can determine when he has lifted his foot before the dribble to call travel and to let him shoot or pass when he has lifted his pivot, before the pivot returns to the floor. This while officiating the defense. I hope that clarifies any misunderstandings. Thanks.
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Old Mon Mar 29, 2004, 08:48pm
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Try to watch for some spin moves on tv tonight. If you have tivo or are taping a game check it out in slow motion. You'll probably see a sequence like this, 1-dribble, 2-plant left foot, 3- pivot on left foot, 4-land on right foot, 5-land on left foot, 6-jump and shoot. If the dribble comes after the first plant then it's legit, but it rarely does. Amare Stoudemire is playing tonight at 9pm est and he does this move at least twice a game.
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