How to handle?

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by rngrck

...but a PU should never over rule the BU on a judgement call on the bases.

Oh? You're more naive than I thought if you believe this. There are certain situations where judgment calls are reversed by one umpire or the other. It happens from MLB on down, too.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by UMP25

Oh? You're more naive than I thought if you believe this. There are certain situations where judgment calls are reversed by one umpire or the other. It happens from MLB on down, too.

We still utilize this method: The dissenting umpire, when asked, explains what he saw to the calling umpire. The calling umpire then reverses his own call.

We don't let it appear that there was an "over-ruling." That can open a can of worms later in the game. We get together and the calling umpire gets the call right, when necessary.

[UMP25]

Indeed. I'll go one further: there is a specific play where I don't change the call; I change the umpire. When I employ this mechanic with a partner, I have never had an argument. Plus, it looks much crisper and fluid. It involves F3 pulling his foot and the base umpire quickly going to his partner for assistance. If it's done properly, it doesn't even look like a changed call or an overruling.

[mbyron]

My association recommends this mechanic in these situations:

Play happens at 1B, BU in infield, has some doubt about a pulled foot.
BU (to PU): "Did you see a pulled foot?"

PU: "No."

BU: "Then the batter's out!"

This question gets a yes/no answer, and it's about what PU saw: if he was watching something else (OBS/INT, for instance), he can still say no, he didn't see a pulled foot.

I'm not certain I like the mechanic overall -- I was trained to get my own call first, and ask for help later -- but I understand its rationale.

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by mbyron

My association recommends this mechanic in these situations:

Play happens at 1B, BU in infield, has some doubt about a pulled foot.
BU (to PU): "Did you see a pulled foot?"

PU: "No."

BU: "Then the batter's out!"

This question gets a yes/no answer, and it's about what PU saw: if he was watching something else (OBS/INT, for instance), he can still say no, he didn't see a pulled foot.

I'm not certain I like the mechanic overall -- I was trained to get my own call first, and ask for help later -- but I understand its rationale.

Sounds like what I do and what I recommend. I'm probably in the minority, too, regarding this mechanic--indeed, at the Cleveland NCAA meetings when this play was discussed in a breakout session, the 2 gents leading the discussion were vehemently opposed to this. I don't see why, either. If it's done correctly, meaning quickly and emphatically, it looks good and accomplishes the same thing as calling time, discussing it, then changing it. Granted, we're there to get the call right, but if we can do so without a typical committee meeting on the field, is that not the best way to do it?

[canadaump6]

Originally Posted by GarthB

We still utilize this method: The dissenting umpire explains what he saw to the calling umpire. The calling umpire then reverses his own call.

We don't let it appear that there was an "over-ruling." That can open a can of worms later in the game. We get together and the calling umpire gets the call right, when necessary.

I had an umpire come up to me uninvited a few years ago and tell me the running lane interference wasn't called in that league. He was an old guard and so I gave in. Now I'd be either ejecting him from the game or walking off the diamond.

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by canadaump6

I had an umpire come up to me uninvited a few years ago and tell me the running lane interference wasn't called in that league.

We can stop right there. Any blue who comes to you to lecture you needs to get the shove. If he is wrking with you, then he can make a suggestion, clarification, that's all. You can discuss later. If he's not wrking with you, he needs to STFU. Unless he's buying the martinins of course.

He was an old guard and so I gave in. Now I'd be either ejecting him from the game or walking off the diamond.

Typical Old Guard. No communicaton skilss especially with the youner umpires. Everything is a lecture, never n educaion.

Looking down this thread, I see that you are getting criticized, wow, new, eh?

We, the older umpires, which predominate this forum, are on our way out. You, the younger umps, are on the way in. This threatens the BeJesus out of the Olg Guard, their days are fast n the past.

These are the same umps who will say "Show me up, player, I'll dump you" but when an old Guard umpire shows up a young man newer to the game, it's "for hos own good."

Yeh, right, the hypocrisy is so deep one can barely see out.

[canadaump6]

Originally Posted by fitump56

We can stop right there. Any blue who comes to you to lecture you needs to get the shove. If he is wrking with you, then he can make a suggestion, clarification, that's all. You can discuss later. If he's not wrking with you, he needs to STFU. Unless he's buying the martinins of course.



Typical Old Guard. No communicaton skilss especially with the youner umpires. Everything is a lecture, never n educaion.

Looking down this thread, I see that you are getting criticized, wow, new, eh?

We, the older umpires, which predominate this forum, are on our way out. You, the younger umps, are on the way in. This threatens the BeJesus out of the Olg Guard, their days are fast n the past.

These are the same umps who will say "Show me up, player, I'll dump you" but when an old Guard umpire shows up a young man newer to the game, it's "for hos own good."

Yeh, right, the hypocrisy is so deep one can barely see out.

I'm experienced with old guards. One thing I learned from last year was that you have to play the political game to advance. That is something I plan on doing this year to help me move through the ranks. And of course kiss some butt until I get a chance to prove I'm better than the old guards.

[Interested Ump]

Originally Posted by canadaump6

I'm experienced with old guards. One thing I learned from last year was that you have to play the political game to advance. That is something I plan on doing this year to help me move through the ranks. And of course kiss some butt until I get a chance to prove I'm better than the old guards.

No doubt about it. The Old Guard makes certin that there is a steep ladder you have to step. This is singly the most prevalent path of determined resisance, I have had to climb it, it is not fun nor is it self inspiring.

Unless you step back and look at the now and the when.

Your day will come. Until then, keep our head high and ask yourself:

"Are you part of the solution or part of the disease?"

The disease will kill you, the solution cure you.

Then throw that mask back on and do your best.

[btdt]

Originally Posted by UMP25

Oh? You're more naive than I thought if you believe this. There are certain situations where judgment calls are reversed by one umpire or the other. It happens from MLB on down, too.

I am not aware of any rule that authorizes any umpire to over rule another umpires judgment call. Perhaps incorrect rule interpretation may be corrected by the UIC.

As plate umpire I have no problem allowing the head coach to go onto the field and speak with the umpire who made the call.

As base umpire I have no problem speaking to the head coach, but I will not change a judgment call. "Coach, in my judgment he was ..."

If I am going to get help on this play it will be before I make a call .... if possible .... if not possible to ask my partner " was he on the base?" because of action of the other runners, I make my call and move on.

Those looking for perfection need to find a different hobby.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by btdt

I am not aware of any rule that authorizes any umpire to over rule another umpires judgment call. Perhaps incorrect rule interpretation may be corrected by the UIC.

True, one umpire can't overrule another's call. That does not mean the calling umpire can't ask his partner what he saw and change his orginal call based upon that information.

As long as a coach asks the calling umpire to consider getting help in a calm, respectful manner, I don't have a problem with it. Now if this is a regular occurrence after every close call, I'm not as likely to consider going for help.

c-ump6, umpires don't eject each other from the game.

[rookieblue]

Now I'd be either ejecting him from the game or walking off the diamond.

What a piece of work. I really have to remember to log in before reading these threads.

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by rookieblue

What a piece of work. I really have to remember to log in before reading these threads.
"...a humble and contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise." - Ps li

New Guard, same as the Old Guard. Hyporites.

[canadaump6]

Originally Posted by rookieblue

What a piece of work. I really have to remember to log in before reading these threads.

You'd better not be referring to me.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by canadaump6

You'd better not be referring to me.

"Oh, a tough guy, eh????"