How can I handle this?

cbailey · #1 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 28, 2004, 02:39pm

1st year official here.

6th grade game, 3-man crew, I'm HL. A sweep play is going away from me towards the other sideline. Behind the play (about 15 yards behind, but right in front of me), I see a defensive player grab an offensive players facemask and throw him to the ground. I, of course, throw my flag.

As soon as I throw my flag, my WH looks at me like I just insulted his daughter. I tell him the penalty I have and he proceeds to tell me that we don't make those kind of calls that far away from the play. He gives his signals to the pressbox and then heads over to my sideline to talk with my coach (I called it on his player). He tells him, with me standing there, that he didn't see the penalty, but didn't think I should be throwing a flag that far away from the action. But since I called it, he wasn't going to overrule me.

I would understand if it was holding or block in the back, but a facemask which forces someone to the ground, IMHO, deserves a flag.

The WH waived off 2 of my flags later on in the game. One of them being encroachment, the other being holding on a play coming to my side of the field.

Did I do anything wrong? Was I wrong to throw that original flag?

Please help a newbie here!!

waltjp · #2 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 28, 2004, 02:59pm

You have it exactly right. As you said, the defensive player grabbed and threw the offensive player to the ground by the facemask. 15 yarder! Player safety is the issue. Throw that every time you see it no matter where it occurs on the field.

I'd also tell that R that you don't agree with his philosophy. Not when safety is the issue.

simpson · #3 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 28, 2004, 03:03pm

You might also mention to the R that a little teamwork would be appreciated. He sure wouldn't like it if you told the Head Coach you didn't think the R should have called holding or whatever. Remind him you work as a crew, everything is supposed to be "we have ..." not, "he saw ..."

OverAndBack · #4 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 28, 2004, 03:05pm

I call that a "safety issue."

To me, holding behind the play at that level should be a talk-to, unless you felt the defender was somehow going to make the play. But anything that could potentially injure a kid cannot be ignored. I would have to look up the line in my officials' handbook, but it's something like "the safety of the participants must be paramount, and on this point there can be no compromise."

I'd hate to think there were officials who were more concerned with just keeping the clock moving and getting out of there at a reasonable hour than doing what's right by the kids.

Ticky-tack stuff, yeah. Safety issues? No way.

OverAndBack · #5 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 28, 2004, 03:11pm

Oh, by the way? I don't think I'd be interested in getting assigned to that guy's crew anymore.

/internet tough guy

Rich · #6 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 28, 2004, 03:13pm

Quote:

Originally posted by cbailey
1st year official here.

6th grade game, 3-man crew, I'm HL. A sweep play is going away from me towards the other sideline. Behind the play (about 15 yards behind, but right in front of me), I see a defensive player grab an offensive players facemask and throw him to the ground. I, of course, throw my flag.

As soon as I throw my flag, my WH looks at me like I just insulted his daughter. I tell him the penalty I have and he proceeds to tell me that we don't make those kind of calls that far away from the play. He gives his signals to the pressbox and then heads over to my sideline to talk with my coach (I called it on his player). He tells him, with me standing there, that he didn't see the penalty, but didn't think I should be throwing a flag that far away from the action. But since I called it, he wasn't going to overrule me.

I would understand if it was holding or block in the back, but a facemask which forces someone to the ground, IMHO, deserves a flag.

The WH waived off 2 of my flags later on in the game. One of them being encroachment, the other being holding on a play coming to my side of the field.

Did I do anything wrong? Was I wrong to throw that original flag?

Please help a newbie here!!

I would've walked off the field if someone pulled that crap with me, but I'm not a rookie either.

One referee to not work with again.

--Rich

cbailey · #7 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 28, 2004, 03:18pm

You have no idea how hard it was not to leave, especially after he waives off 2 other penalties that same game.

Is it appropriate for a rookie official to request not to work with a certain crew or crew chief?

OverAndBack · #8 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 28, 2004, 03:24pm

I wouldn't take out an ad in the trades or have a t-shirt made up, but if your assignor is worth his salt, he'll understand.

Chances are before you get the chance to ask, he'll have asked the assignor not to assign you to his crew anymore.

FredFan7 · #9 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 28, 2004, 03:39pm

It's one thing to call a hold going away from the play. But when its something that's a safety issue (clip, facemask, or something that is unnecessary roughness) it must be called.

Your WH sounds like a condecending.....something. He needs an attitude adjustment.

MJT · #10 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 28, 2004, 05:12pm

There are some serious problems with this situation, and it is the referee, not you! He is undermining you, which is WRONG! He is making the "new guy" look bad, which is WRONG! He is not helping you learn how to improve, which is WRONG! By picking up "your" flags, and telling the coach what he did, he is trying to build himself up while taking you down, and I don't know what he could do that would be worse than that.
I would not work with him ever again. I would copy all these replies, which say what he did is wrong, and send them to him so he can what an idiot he has been.
Safety issues need to be called no matter the time left on the clock or the location of the field. BIB, clips, PF's need to be called and one official should never be upset when you call those.

cowbyfan1 · #11 (**permalink**) Fri Oct 29, 2004, 01:27am

I would have liked to seen how he explains to the parents of that kid why it is not a foul if that kid ended up seriously hurt.
One thing you did do wrong, I also would have ejected the kid that did that as that is nothing but malicious with intent to cause a serious injury. I would have also recommended in my report to the league that the player be suspended for the rest of the season. But that is me.
As far as the referee:
1. Go to you assignment committee chairman and tell him what happened and that you never want to work with him again.
2. I would have told the ref that I would be contacting the the assignment committee and that if by chance we did ever have to work together again, that if he ever sold me out or waived off one of my flags, especially a safety issue type, the only way he would see me on the field would be as I walked off.
3. Sit back and enjoy as he will probably not be working as an official for long as most officials that I know would never work with him. If I was an assignor, I would never give him a game ever again.

OverAndBack · #12 (**permalink**) Fri Oct 29, 2004, 06:03am

Can you really just walk off the field?

Man, I know that would be a thought or an inclination, but I'd rather just finish the job and then deal with it afterwards.

waltjp · #13 (**permalink**) Fri Oct 29, 2004, 06:28am

I wouldn't walk off the field, but I would express my concerns with the R when you could. Probably during halftime or after the game. I'd also let the assignor know about the situation and your desire not to be assigned to work with him again. We don't work in a vacuum. Our reputation as an official is well known by our colleagues. I'd be shocked if this was an isolated incident.

BayouUmp · #14 (**permalink**) Fri Oct 29, 2004, 09:46am

Advice to rookies:

Be certain of what you saw, report it accurately with confidence, and then stick to your guns.

Don't let a coach, or other official talk you out of what you saw.

Now, let me also say that dropping a flag does not prove you are doing your job. You have to use discretion and know when to talk-to and when to throw. A good white hat will help you learn the differences.

If your situation had happened to me my rookie year, I probably would have felt the way you did and also said nothing. It would have bothered me the rest of the game and probably the season.

Not now! If that were to happen to me tonight, I would calmly call the R aside at the next TO or end-of-quarter and state:
"I don't appreciate what you just did and if it happens again you'll have a flag on the ground every down and by the end of this game the coach on my side will be conviced you're screwing him."

I'd then go back to my position without letting him respond and let him chew on those words.

You just don't criticize another offical in public and this guy needs to learn that.

Snake~eyes · #15 (**permalink**) Fri Oct 29, 2004, 10:58am

Quote:

Originally posted by BayouUmp
Be certain of what you saw, report it accurately with confidence, and then stick to your guns.

Don't let a coach, or other official talk you out of what you saw.

I agree, but if an official comes up and tells you what he saw and you might not have seen it but it would affect your call, step up and wave the flag off or reverse the call. Better off to get it right.