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  #46 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 24, 2008, 12:35pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GarthB
If you recall, after I said I would toss the coach for attacking my integrity a SECOND time AFTER a warning for the first time, you suggested I was a redass.

Now, you say we are in agreement? Nice back pedal.

However you got here, welcomt to reality.
Huh? What back pedal? I never said you weren't a redass, only that we are in agreement that a coach who questions our integrity gets dumped (in your case, after a warning). Please re-read my posts. Our difference arises from what we interpret as an attack on our integrity, not how we deal with it.
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 24, 2008, 12:54pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dash_riprock
Huh? What back pedal? I never said you weren't a redass, only that we are in agreement that a coach who questions our integrity gets dumped (in your case, after a warning). Please re-read my posts. Our difference arises from what we interpret as an attack on our integrity, not how we deal with it.
Uh-huh.
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 24, 2008, 01:44pm
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dash

Let me put this in perspective:

IF (and I have heard it) a coach says: "Call it both ways!" The first time I hear it I take off my mask agressively and stride purposefully towards the offender.

Loudly I say: "Are you quesioning my integrity . . . are you?" As I keep walking towards him mask in hand.

No coach has EVER had the guts to say: "Yes, I am" cause they now know they are on a short lease.

If I heard anything of the same nature I would dump people. I don't CARE what you (or the coach) thinks the statement means . . . it is well defined too me.

And dash, I have worked in Seattle, San Francisco and Portland and the basic rule in those areas has always been "dump the guy."

Regards,
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 24, 2008, 01:56pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim C
Let me put this in perspective:

IF (and I have heard it) a coach says: "Call it both ways!" The first time I hear it I take off my mask agressively and stride purposefully towards the offender.

Loudly I say: "Are you quesioning my integrity . . . are you?" As I keep walking towards him mask in hand.

No coach has EVER had the guts to say: "Yes, I am" cause they now know they are on a short lease.

If I heard anything of the same nature I would dump people. I don't CARE what you (or the coach) thinks the statement means . . . it is well defined too me.

And dash, I have worked in Seattle, San Francisco and Portland and the basic rule in those areas has always been "dump the guy."

Regards,
Well, you must be a reda$$, too.

(Maybe we should create a secret handshake.)

Having worked in New York, California and Washington, my experience is similar to your, Tee. The funny thing, those who heard that the most were the ones who did nothing about it. Hmmmmm.
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Last edited by GarthB; Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 02:00pm.
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 24, 2008, 04:33pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim C
Let me put this in perspective:

Loudly I say: "Are you quesioning my integrity . . . are you?" As I keep walking towards him mask in hand.

No coach has EVER had the guts to say: "Yes, I am" cause they now know they are on a short lease.
Reminds me of a story that I still get teased about. My second year of umpiring, assigned to the bases of my first championship game (a 10 yo tournament). Top of the first inning, I make a call at 1B, coach comes out of the 1B dugout, asks me a question about the call, to which I reply "Are you questioning my judgment?"

I wouldn't call it guts, be he didn't show great intelligence as he replied "Yes, I am." I dumped him.

Game got rained out in the 3rd. After the game the coaches from both teams met with the tournament director, scheduled the game to be replayed from the beginning the next day. Since they started over from the beginning, the tournament director told the coach he wasn't ejected for the replay. Saw the coach in the parking lot, he said "I'll never answer that question that way again" and we both laughed.

My assigner heard my story, explained how I "baited" him, and I wasn't assigned to the replay. That story (and several others) still brings a big smile to my face whenever I think of them. Rule 1.01 - "Baseball is a game......."

Walt

Last edited by AAUA96; Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 04:37pm.
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 24, 2008, 05:00pm
BigGuy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelVA2000
Any of the following:

Myths about Baseball and Softball:

9. The batter may not overrun first base when he gets a walk.

Saw these on another forum.
http://www.swpll.org/library/documen...Game_Myths.pdf
Be careful about how this is stated. It can be interpreted two ways - one is a myth and the other isn't.

Last I saw in FED rules, if a batter-runner reaches first on a BB and overruns the base he can be legally tagged out. He is only entitled to the base.

That said, a BB is still a live ball and a runner can run past first base and try for second in an attempt to draw a throw.

No big deal as long as whoever reads it interprets it the same way as the person who wrote it.
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 24, 2008, 06:42pm
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Early in '07 I had a player on a Quebec Men's team refer to me as a "****ing Anglo" in french which had to be by far the most annoying thing said to me by far.

In the 3 other stiches.

A- He's done....Would've been warned after the first one.

B- If he said it so only I heard it, I would respond "Have him find it and he will get it." If it is said so that everyone can hear it definite warning. If he is grandstanding while doing it he's done.

C- If only I hear it, I would probably laugh and say "maybe that is why you aren't a head coach" very quietly. If it is loud usually, if the head coach doesn't have the same mindset the head coach will deal with it no questions asked. If he doesn't he is done.
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 25, 2008, 09:08am
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Remembering another one...

Last summer, adult men's league (which, by the way usually goes pretty smoothly around here. The league president reads them the riot act before before the season and they are generally well behaved).

Tying run on third. Batter hits a pop foul near the third base dugout. F5 heads over, balances himself against the fence, keeping both feet in play, leans through an opening in the fence, makes the catch, then tumbles into dead ball area.

Plate umpire kills it, calls the out and awards R3 home.

Defensive coach erupts, team erupts, various knuckleheads charge my partner. Coach claims that "the umpire in our last game didn't call it like that" (a dumb statement in itself, but not the one I'm getting at). I get everybody away from my partner in quick fashion and we get the game moving along again.

I trot back out to "C" (there was another runner) and the shorstop is still looking agitated. He comments to me, "Man, that is the stupidest F***ing rule I've ever heard!".

Me: "Yeah, it's such a stupid rule that it's only been in the rule books since about 1903".
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 25, 2008, 10:05am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigGuy
Be careful about how this is stated. It can be interpreted two ways - one is a myth and the other isn't.

Last I saw in FED rules, if a batter-runner reaches first on a BB and overruns the base he can be legally tagged out. He is only entitled to the base.

That said, a BB is still a live ball and a runner can run past first base and try for second in an attempt to draw a throw.

No big deal as long as whoever reads it interprets it the same way as the person who wrote it.
Be careful. While you cannot overrun first (no try for 2B) on a walk in FED, you can in OBR and NCAA.
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 25, 2008, 10:51am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AAUA96
Reminds me of a story that I still get teased about. My second year of umpiring, assigned to the bases of my first championship game (a 10 yo tournament). Top of the first inning, I make a call at 1B, coach comes out of the 1B dugout, asks me a question about the call, to which I reply "Are you questioning my judgment?"

I wouldn't call it guts, be he didn't show great intelligence as he replied "Yes, I am." I dumped him.
I think this is a mistake. Sometimes, an umpire's judgment is incorrect: we make mistakes. Coaches often question judgment, for example by saying that a call is terrible. OK, maybe I made a terrible call.

But questioning the official's integrity is another matter. The expression "call it both ways" implies that the official is NOT calling it both ways, which implies favoritism and cheating. That's as much as saying that the official is terrible, not just the call. This is the comment that warrants ejection.

Note that I'm not condoning arguing over "judgment calls" such as safe/out, fair/foul, ball/strike. We all know that coaches cannot legally come out to argue judgment calls. My point is that if a coach complained about one of your judgment calls, and then you asked whether he was questioning your judgment, then the answer should be "yes," (or maybe "in this case, yes") and that this answer does not warrant an ejection.
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Last edited by mbyron; Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 10:53am.
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 25, 2008, 12:19pm
BigGuy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyg08
"Tie goes to the runner...you otta know that one by now blue!"
So what's wrong with that statement? Tie does go to the runner. See FED 8.4.1f. By definition the fielder must make the play on the runner/batter-runner BEFORE they reach the respective base. A tie implies the same time. Of course there are those who say a tie isn't possible. They are two mutually exclusive events and can occur at the same time.

f. after a dropped third strike (see 8-4-1e) or a fair hit, if the ball held by any fielder touches the batter before the batter touches first base; or if any fielder, while holding the ball in his grasp, touches first base or touches first base with the ball before the batter-runner touches first base:
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 25, 2008, 12:21pm
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Rich,

Thanks for the clarification.
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  #58 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 25, 2008, 12:35pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Ives
Be careful. While you cannot overrun first (no try for 2B) on a walk in FED, you can in OBR and NCAA.
Rich,

Are you saying that, in Fed, if the catcher does not like the ball four call and is discussing it with the PU, the batter/runner cannot try for 2nd?
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  #59 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 25, 2008, 12:50pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue37
Rich,

Are you saying that, in Fed, if the catcher does not like the ball four call and is discussing it with the PU, the batter/runner cannot try for 2nd?

No. I was commenting on the "overrun" like on a ground ball, with the runner making no attempt to go to 2B. In FED if the runner overruns on a BB he is in jeopardy of being put out. In OBR and NCAA he is not.
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  #60 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 25, 2008, 12:53pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue37
Rich,

Are you saying that, in Fed, if the catcher does not like the ball four call and is discussing it with the PU, the batter/runner cannot try for 2nd?
An intentional base on balls is a dead ball in FED. The walk is requested by the coach, time is called and the batter is sent to 1st. When ball four is pitched the ball remains live.
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