Most annoying thing heard

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

Ok Garth, I'm curious to see how you'd play this out. Game management is something I need to get better at, particularly with coaches. So here's the sitch A...

You're in A, close play at first, you have him safe. You start to pivot into B as the ball is being returned to F1 when head rat yells from his cage "CALL IT BOTH WAYS".

What do you say back, it its the 2nd time he's said it to you?

"Safe -- he beat the throw. He beat the throw -- safe. How's that?"

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by GarthB

But "Call it both ways" implies strongly that you are favoring one team over the other, or put otherwise, cheating.

Garth - ya gotta switch to decaf buddy!

If I really thought he was seriously questioning my integrity or accusing me of being intentionally dishonest ("cheating" as you put it) of course I would dump him on the spot. It depends on a lot of things including tone, volume, frequency, etc.

All coaches think the other guy is getting the better calls. It's a trait inherent to rats. I don't see much difference between a whiny "call it both ways" and a whiny "not yours Timmy." You characterize the latter as a simple disagreement with your judgment, but it could just as easily be construed as a statement that you are incompetent.

If it's nothing more than the occasional whine, I'm not going to let it get under my skin. I like to use the response that JJ gave to Sitch B. If it escalates or gets personal, then I'll deal with it differently. A redass ump looks just as unprofessional as an a-hole coach.

[MichaelVA2000]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

Ok Garth, I'm curious to see how you'd play this out. Game management is something I need to get better at, particularly with coaches. So here's the sitch A...

You're in A, close play at first, you have him safe. You start to pivot into B as the ball is being returned to F1 when head rat yells from his cage "CALL IT BOTH WAYS".

What do you say back, it its the 2nd time he's said it to you?

Sitch B...

You're PU. Strike 3 called, 3rd out. As 3rd base coach (who is also HC) walks by to return to dugout, he says "you gotta give our pitcher that too." What is your reply? Note: He never stops walking and keeps on to the dugout.

Sitch C...

Same as B, but its an overly obnoxious assistant.

Others with experience other than Garth, please chime in with your responses.

Sitch A

Cage my need to be cleaned:

Coach: "CALL IT BOTH WAYS".

Umpire: What I'm hearing you say coach is that I'm cheating by not calling them both ways.

Coach: No Blue, that's not what I'm saying.

Umpire: Good, for now I don't need to take any further action. Knock off the chirping.

Sitch B

It's all about the tone. If he says it just load enough for me to hear and he's walking away I'll ignore him.

Sitch C

Same response as situation B unless the overly obnoxious assistant begins putting on a show. If it's the show, I lower the curtain quickly.

[DG]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

Ok Garth, I'm curious to see how you'd play this out. Game management is something I need to get better at, particularly with coaches. So here's the sitch A...

You're in A, close play at first, you have him safe. You start to pivot into B as the ball is being returned to F1 when head rat yells from his cage "CALL IT BOTH WAYS".

What do you say back, it its the 2nd time he's said it to you?

Sitch B...

You're PU. Strike 3 called, 3rd out. As 3rd base coach (who is also HC) walks by to return to dugout, he says "you gotta give our pitcher that too." What is your reply? Note: He never stops walking and keeps on to the dugout.

Sitch C...

Same as B, but its an overly obnoxious assistant.

Others with experience other than Garth, please chime in with your responses.

A - there are only two ways, SAFE or OUT, are you suggesting I call it both ways? When he asks the same time I say "what part of this did you miss the first time?"

B - "What does "too" mean hoss?

C - what's an overly obnoxious assistant doing in the game?

Seriously though:

A - ignore
B - ignore
C - toss the overly obnoxious assistant earlier in the game when it is evident he is an overly obnoxious assistant and C don't happen...

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

I don't see much difference between a whiny "call it both ways" and a whiny "not yours Timmy." You characterize the latter as a simple disagreement with your judgment, but it could just as easily be construed as a statement that you are incompetent.

The difference is, and you point it out nicely, is that "not your's Timmy" can be interperted a number of ways, whereas, "call it both ways" clearly states that you are not calling it "both ways", thus, cheating.

Gone.

It has nothing to do with caffeine. It has nothing to do with being a red-***. It has everything to do with where one draws the line. I have never allowed a coach to imply that I cheat in anyway. Perhaps, partly because of where I draw the line and how well that is known, it doesn't come up except for the occasional new comer or visitor who has yet to learn.

You can choose to accept that kind of treatment, and thus show your coaches it is acceptable behaviour.

I don't. Never have. Never will.

[Tim C]

You can accept anything you want . . .

"Call it both ways" in my games equals ejection.

Of course I am limited in my experience:

Only 39 years and about 4,000 games.

Your mileage may differ.

Regards,

[dash_riprock]

Tim, around these parts, if you ejected everyone who said "call it both ways," you surely wouldn't have 4,000 games.

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by GarthB

It has nothing to do with being a red-***.

Yes it does.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

Yes it does.

So ejecting someone, the second time he accuses you of cheating, after being warned the first time, is being a red a$$?

Wow.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

Tim, around these parts, if you ejected everyone who said "call it both ways," you surely wouldn't have 4,000 games.

You hear it that much because no one has taken care of business. Take care of it, and you won't hear it.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by GarthB

You hear it that much because no one has taken care of business. Take care of it, and you won't hear it.

Amen.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

Tim, around these parts, if you ejected everyone who said "call it both ways," you surely wouldn't have 4,000 games.

If I hear that phrase ("call it both ways") in a Scholastic game, I approach the Head Coach and inform him that I will not tolerate accusations of cheating again - period! There is no discussion about it and that is his warning (FED games mostly). If it was an assistant that said it, he's gone without a warning.

During non-Scholastic games in the Summer & Fall (played under OBR), use of the phrase is an immediate ejection. Manager or assistant makes no difference, the guy is gone.

By the way, it doesn't matter if I hear it directed to my partner or I, the result will be the same. I will give my partner a moment to deal with it but if he doesn't (and many of them have not), I will. I just don't allow this kind of crap in my games and I don't allow anyone to question the integrity of my crew!

Time for medication!!

[BretMan]

Here's one that really happened and it fits both the "annoying things heard" and "call it both ways" discussion.

Top of the first inning. Batter goes down looking at a pitch for the third out.

Passing me on his way back to the dugout, his coach says, "You gotta call that both ways!".



I dressed him down pretty good. Me: "Call it both ways? Coach, why don't you wait until your pitcher throws a pitch before you make up your mind whether or not I'm calling "both ways"! You don't have any idea how I'm going to call it because he hasn't thrown a pitch yet! If he throws the same pitch, he'll get the same call! You're arguing about something that hasn't even happened! Now knock it off and get back in your dugout!".

Didn't hear another peep from him the whole game, but that comment, in that situation, has to rank up there as one of the all-time dumbest.

[dash_riprock]

I think you handled it well Bret. It demonstrates that "call it both ways" isn't necessarily a knock on your integrity (in this case, it couldn't be), and yes, it is way up there on the stupid scale.

To Garth, Tim & Ozzy, from my earlier response on this thread:

Originally Posted by Dash_Riprock

If I really thought he was seriously questioning my integrity or accusing me of being intentionally dishonest ("cheating" as you put it) of course I would dump him on the spot.

So we really don't disagree at all on what happens if a coach questions our integrity (#6 on Jim Evans' list of automatic ejections).

Where we differ is our individual interpretation of the words. Sometimes, I see it as merely whining about a pitch. If both pitchers are living on the edge and throwing 10 borderline pitches every inning, it's entirely possible that the coach honestly believes the other guy got a strike on the same pitch I balled for his guy. Maybe once in a while he is right. And if he mutters "same way blue," I'll take that as his way of telling me to bear down, rather than an accusation that I am intentionally trying to screw his team. If, depending on how the words were conveyed, I believe otherwise, see ya, with no warning.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

I think you handled it well Bret. It demonstrates that "call it both ways" isn't necessarily a knock on your integrity (in this case, it couldn't be), and yes, it is way up there on the stupid scale.

To Garth, Tim & Ozzy, from my earlier response on this thread:


So we really don't disagree at all on what happens if a coach questions our integrity (#6 on Jim Evans' list of automatic ejections).

Where we differ is our individual interpretation of the words. Sometimes, I see it as merely whining about a pitch. If both pitchers are living on the edge and throwing 10 borderline pitches every inning, it's entirely possible that the coach honestly believes the other guy got a strike on the same pitch I balled for his guy. Maybe once in a while he is right. And if he mutters "same way blue," I'll take that as his way of telling me to bear down, rather than an accusation that I am intentionally trying to screw his team. If, depending on how the words were conveyed, I believe otherwise, see ya, with no warning.

If you recall, after I said I would toss the coach for attacking my integrity a SECOND time AFTER a warning for the first time, you suggested I was a redass.

Now, you say we are in agreement? Nice back pedal.

However you got here, welcome to reality.