Hitting object in fair, then going over fence

[bossman72]

Dave Emerling,

Thanks for the response... and no, these aren't TWP field configurations i just cooked up. ALL of these conditions exist on fields that i have umpired on before (and still do) and are VARSITY fields.

The scoreboard is in center field in FRONT of the fence right up against it.

The foul poles are located in FRONT of the fence and about an inch away from it.

The trees do dangle over the outfield fence.

I've heard multiple ground rules for all of these situations, which is why i wanted to know if there was a rulebook definition for what should happen in these situations; b/c i have heard coaches give home runs for hitting the scoreboard/foul pole and i've heard giving them doubles if the ball went over the fence, etc. Although these are rag-tag fields, varsity teams do play on them, so i just want to be sure the ground rules they give are within the rules.

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by bossman72

i have heard coaches give home runs for hitting the scoreboard/foul pole and i've heard giving them doubles if the ball went over the fence, etc. Although these are rag-tag fields, varsity teams do play on them, so i just want to be sure the ground rules they give are within the rules.

YOU determine the grounds rules, not the coaches. Instead of "Coach - take us around please" at the plate meeting, you take them around. It sets the proper tone for the game. And if you're unfamiliar with the field, get there early and walk it.

[gordon30307]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

YOU determine the grounds rules, not the coaches. Instead of "Coach - take us around please" at the plate meeting, you take them around. It sets the proper tone for the game. And if you're unfamiliar with the field, get there early and walk it.

You are so very wrong it's pathetic.

Home team determines ground rules. Ground rules cannot supercede the rule book. In this case you can determine the ground rule. In the event that the visiting team objects to a "ground rule" (other than one that supercedes the rule book) you can either go with the home teams interpretation or modify it.

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by gordon30307

You are so very wrong it's pathetic.

Home team determines ground rules. Ground rules cannot supercede the rule book. In this case you can determine the ground rule. In the event that the visiting team objects to a "ground rule" (other than one that supercedes the rule book) you can either go with the home teams interpretation or modify it.

Is it pathetic to arrive early and walk an unfamiliar field to prevent the umpire's worst enemy from rearing its ugly head?

Is it pathetic to take charge of the pre-game meeting to demonstrate, in a non overly-officious way, that you are in charge of the game and that you take your responsibilities seriously?

Of course ground rules cannot supersede a rule - I never implied otherwise.

The great majority of ground rules come right out of the rules book or common sense, requiring no clarification from the home coach. If there is an unusual condition not covered by the rules, of course I will ask the home coach how it has been dealt with in the past and the visiting coach if he agrees. And if there is a dispute, the UIC resolves it.

I don't recall if it was a college or pro clinic where this practice was taught, but it made sense to everyone. Rarely do I get a comment from a coach, and all of them have been positive.

[bobbybanaduck]

Originally Posted by gordon30307

You are so very wrong it's pathetic.

Home team determines ground rules. Ground rules cannot supercede the rule book. In this case you can determine the ground rule. In the event that the visiting team objects to a "ground rule" (other than one that supercedes the rule book) you can either go with the home teams interpretation or modify it.

the rule says the home team manager will present the ground rules to the umpires and visiting manager and IF they are acceptable then that's what will be used. who do you think determines if they are acceptable?

this is the actual piece of paper that was posted in the new britain stadium (AA Eastern League) umpire locker room.

[dash_riprock]

Very interesting - thanks for posting that. When you work there, is it customary to correct the errors in the ground rules every game or just with new managers? The piece of paper looks ancient.

[waltjp]

Thrown ball into dugout or stands from infielders - one base

Thrown ball into dugout or stands from outfielder - two bases

[bobbybanaduck]

Originally Posted by waltjp

Thrown ball into dugout or stands from infielders - one base

Thrown ball into dugout or stands from outfielder - two bases

of all the issues those have, THAT'S the one you pick??? how about batted or thrown ball hits umpire, dead ball? or throw from fielder hts on deck batter, dead ball? or bated ball hits pitcher's in bullpen, double????

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

Very interesting - thanks for posting that. When you work there, is it customary to correct the errors in the ground rules every game or just with new managers? The piece of paper looks ancient.

the piece of paper can't be too ancient...the stadium was opened in 96. at the league meeting the president asked for a volunteer to update the ground rules as they were pretty much awful throughout the league. i started doing it but my interests changed as the season progressed. to answer your question about what is customary at the plate meeting...typically we run through the ground rules at the start of each series ifit is the ffirst visit for the visitors to that stadium that year. if it is not their first visit then we just ask if they have any questions. however, at this stadium there are so many weird things going on with the outfield wall that we pretty much went all the way around before the start of each series whether it was the first trip in or not.