|
Thu Jun 19, 2003, 08:12am
|
|||
|
|||
|
Had a couple firsts last night, one I called and one I'm glad I didn't have to call.
First I'll try to draw a mental picture for you of the field. High fence extends to a couple feet past 1B. Now look 90 deg to Right about 30". Low fence starts and angles back to original fence line, turns, and goes out to outfield fence corner. So there is a narrow triangle of space to the right of the fence line extended that the players use to enter/exit the field. Situation: ASA Men's FP, I'm PU. High fly just over and right of 1B. F4 goes to fence, reaches over and snags ball just off player's bench. Mentally I am congratulating him for a fine catch when I look down and see both feet in the triangle. "No catch" I yell, and point to the ground. "Both feet in dead ball territory." The hi-fives stopped and everyone looked at me with a look that said they were trying to figure out what the rule was and whether or not to challenge me. No one did, play went on and the batter hit the next pitch into CF for a clean single. Later some of the players talked to my partner and he told them they could not have a legal catch if the ball was over DB territory when caught! "Ohhh, right - partner!" 2nd Situation: fly ball over 3B. F6 goes to fence (in live ball territory), ball bounced off glove, into chest. F6 is now into fence, ball touches top rail of fence and back into body. F6 hits ground, and then I see yellow spheroid on ground. Relieved, I yell "Foul Ball!" Relieved because I wasn't sure of my call if he had made the catch. The ball is in foul territority, not yet under control by the fielder, and touches the fence before being caught. The ball was actually trapped against the fence by his body as he fell. I have to believe this would be a foul ball even if he retained possesion - but it would have been a hard sell. Do you agree? WMB BTW - before you comment on 1st situation: both feet were entirely in DBT when the catch was made. One or both feet did not enter DBT after the catch. 
|
|
Thu Jun 19, 2003, 09:38am
|
|||
|
|||
|
"No catch" I yell, and point to the ground. "Both feet in dead ball territory."
The hi-fives stopped and everyone looked at me with a look that said they were trying to figure out what the rule was and whether or not to challenge me. Good call. Now you could have had some real fun if there were runners and he did catch it before entering DBT  Later some of the players talked to my partner and he told them they could not have a legal catch if the ball was over DB territory when caught! "Ohhh, right - partner!" Yup - and you can't rob a homerun either???? Just for fun Sit 2 - but in the outfield at the fence. What do you have (remember - you said it touched the top of the fence) -Kono
|
|
Thu Jun 19, 2003, 12:30pm
|
|||
|
|||
|
WMB - Sit 2. Foul ball as soon as it touches the fence. Hard sell - you bet! The best you can do is start getting as close to the fielder as you can so that you are right there to make the call. Throw the hands up and start yelling FOUL as soon as the ball touches the fence. Obviously, you saw the ball touch the fence, but you did not mention how far away from the play you were. A big part of selling a call is being in the right place.
Kono's twist - Ball touched the fence, so it cannot be caught for an out. If the ball stays inside the fence, live ball, play on. If the ball is touched by the fielder, then hits the top of the outfield fence and bounces over the fence, I'm going to say 4 base award. I'm sure someone will correct me if I am wrong!
__________________
It's what you learn after you think you know it all that's important!
|
|
Thu Jun 19, 2003, 01:09pm
|
|||
|
|||
|
Situation 2 - Ball that hit s the fence behind home plate cannot be caught for an out (or trapped between catcher's body and fence for an out). Wouldn't the same logic apply to outfield fence - whether fair or foul?
|
|
Thu Jun 19, 2003, 01:27pm
|
|||
|
|||
|
I believe Mr. Kono's point was that since the fence is the "dead ball" line then if the ball hit the top of the fence it would be considered a 4-base award whether it bounced back into the field of play or continued over the fence.
SamC
|
|
Thu Jun 19, 2003, 02:27pm
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
|
|
Thu Jun 19, 2003, 04:01pm
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
__________________
The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
|
|
Thu Jun 19, 2003, 04:27pm
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
|
|
Thu Jun 19, 2003, 05:14pm
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
Only if it continued to the ground or an article on the ground in DBT on the other side of the fence.
__________________
The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
|
|
Tue Jun 24, 2003, 10:14am
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
but I'm gonna disagree anyway.Since the playing field is defined by the front face of the fence, once the ball hits the top of the fence it has hit something equal to the ground (the top of the fence) in DBT. Where it bounces after that doesn't matter. -Kono
|
|
Tue Jun 24, 2003, 11:35am
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
Check out ASA POE 20 & 26.
__________________
The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
|
|
Tue Jun 24, 2003, 12:28pm
|
|||
|
|||
|
Mike -
Temporary fences aside... What is the ASA definition of "Fair Territory"??? The only definition that I have ever seen (and what my comments are based upon) is the MLB definition: FAIR TERRITORY is that part of the playing field within, and including the first base and third base lines, from home base to the bottom of the playing field fence and perpendicularly upwards. All foul lines are in fair territory. Now - don't start yelling at me that this is a softball forum and not baseball. I have previously been lead to believe that most if not all rule sets use a similar definition.Thanx -Kono
|
|
Tue Jun 24, 2003, 02:17pm
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
Thanx. That would make the top of the fence DBT correct?? The ball has now gone beyond fair territory and struck an object (the top of the fence) in DBT. -Kono
|
 |
| Bookmarks |
|
|
Linear Mode
