appeal after overthrow

[Richard_Siegel]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Sorry, Richard, that's not true under OBR. Under OBR, the runner is allowed to return unless he touches the "next" base *after* the ball goes out of play.

In FED, you are correct -- the runner is not allowed to (legally) return if he's on (or beyond) the "next" base *when* the ball goes out of play.

I realize the distinction, for some reason I thought this thread was a FED situation.

[bobbybanaduck]

Originally Posted by Richard_Siegel

A runner who is on or beyond the next base when the ball becomes dead can not LEGALLY go back and retouch the base he missed or left oo soon. However, he can still go back and physically retouch the base. The retouch is meaningless under the rules, but I would bet that not one HS player or coach (except maybe those who also umpire) would realize that the retouch was not a legal retouch and the runner could still be successfully appealed after he was done taking his base award. However, since it is unlikely that they don't know this rule, they would see the meaningless retouch, believe it was legal, and they would not appeal.

the "next base" is the next base from where he is at at the time the ball becomes dead not the next base from the base he left early or missed.

example 1: R2 fly ball to F7. R2 leaves early and slides into third. throw from F7 gets by F5 and goes out of play. at the time the ball went out of play, R2 was already at 3B, making his next base home. he can legally go back and retouch 2B while ball is dead before he touches home.

example 2: R1, R2, 0 outs. ball hit to F9. both runners running on contact. after R2 has rounded 3B F9 throws behind R1 to F3. Ball goes out of play with R2 between 3B and home, R1 was between 1B and 2B. runners awarded home and third.

due to their positions when the ball went out of play R2's next base was home and R1's next base was 2B. R2 may legally return and touch 2B before he touches home, his "next base."

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

Here is the Case Play again



There is no second appeal.

The Case play is practically the same as this OP

R1 Hit and run line drive to F6 who throws to first.

Let's stop: Everyone knows F6 is throwing to F3 to double up R1 just like the OP

However, F6 throws the ball into DBT.

We have 2 errors on the play.

The defense threw the ball into DBT so they are penalized

The runner did not tag up properly. Upon receiving the award R1 MUST correct his base running mistake or he could be called out on appeal as the case play indicates.

Now after the PU puts the ball back into play, if F1 for some uknown reason should throw over F3's head and into DBT while appealing then you would not allow another appeal.

FWIW in FED the point is moot.

Pete Booth

There is, indeed, a "second appeal." The first one occurred during continuous action. Regardless of whether the ball was thrown out of play, under OBR, a separate and distinct appeal is permitted. How is this different from the OP's scenario of F9 throwing to F3 to nail R1 who had left early?

[Richard_Siegel]

There is a confusion of samantics here.

When a ball is throw to a base to "double-off" a runner who left a base too during continuos playing action, this is a appeal, but many folks do not think of it as an appeal. Many folks only consider the "relaxed" type of appeal where it starts at the mound with F1 stepping off to throw the ball to a base, as a true appeal.

Strictly speaking, under the rules both actions are appeal plays.

However, even though the rules are not very clear on this, if a ball is thrown OOP during an attempt to "double-off" a runner who left a base too during continuos playing action, the right to make that appeal again when the ball becomes live is NOT lost. When the ball become live then the pitcher can step off and make the "relaxed" appeal.

If a ball is thrown OOP during an appeal that is "relaxed" the right to appeal that runner at that base is LOST.

[greymule]

Since the site's messaging doesn't seem to work any more, I'd like to post a question publicly to Richard Siegel.

Richard, where are you in Central NJ? I'm in Pennington, three miles north of the Bloods and Crips that control the capital city.

[Richard_Siegel]

Originally Posted by greymule

Since the site's messaging doesn't seem to work any more, I'd like to post a question publicly to Richard Siegel.

Richard, where are you in Central NJ? I'm in Pennington, three miles north of the Bloods and Crips that control the capital city.

I sent a PM about 5pm.