Pitcher taking signals.

[David Emerling]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

I reread your play. You said originally that F1 took signs while straddling the rubber. Now you said he was in contact. Which is it?

Either way, if no quick pitch was involved, it's a "don't do that." (regardless of what the "rule" says.) Send F2 out to the mound to tell Bozo to take his signs from on the rubber so everyone will be happy campers. Sometimes I'll just tell the catcher not to give the pitcher his sign until he gets on the rubber, and usually F1 gets the hint.

Like Ozzy said, I don't see when the catcher gives the sign, nor do I care if he did or didn't get a sign at all, as long as he doesn't just step on the rubber quickly and quick pitch the batter.

I like the way the ASA (Amateur Softball Association) addresses this. It says that the pitcher must be in contact with the rubber and "appear" to be getting signs from the catcher. Essentially, there must be some kind of pause once the pitcher engages the rubber. Obviously, this is to prevent a quick pitch.

The umpire needn't concern himself when, or if, the pitcher is getting the signal from the catcher, as long as there is the appearance of getting a sign.

I would apply the same philosophy to baseball. As long as there is a reasonable pause once the pitcher engages the rubber - I don't really care WHEN or IF he gets signals. No quick pitch ... no violation.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by David Emerling

I like the way the ASA (Amateur Softball Association) addresses this. It says that the pitcher must be in contact with the rubber and "appear" to be getting signs from the catcher. The umpire needn't concern himself when, or if, the pitcher is getting the signal from the catcher, as long as there is the appearance of getting a sign.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

There is no way that you can define "appearance".

[David Emerling]

Originally Posted by fitump56

There is no way that you can define "appearance".

Sure there is! If, in the umpire's judgment, the pitcher paused long enough (as if to get signs from the catcher), he satisfies the requirement.

In other words, the pitcher steps on the rubber, faces his catcher, then delivers the pitch. Fine!

After all, how do you define a "quick pitch?"

What is too quick? How can you categorically determine that the batter is NOT ready? These are all judgment calls.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by fitump56
There is no way that you can define "appearance".

Originally Posted by David Emerling

Sure there is! If, in the umpire's judgment, the pitcher paused long enough (as if to get signs from the catcher), he satisfies the requirement.

Congrats, David, you have well defined the term "appearance" but incorrectly applied it, imo. We have no way of knowing what the true signals are, where they come from, etc. But we do have the judgment that if a pitcher makes certain time and trued movements that we can subjectively call this a "taking signs". As you know, savvy coaches in MFS teach not to "peer" in or bend over, this allows for levels of uncertainty in making the "appearance" decision.

As the level of ball increases in both ability and intelligent play, it can become very problematic to rely on "appearance", best not to rely on anything then. Happily, better plyers don't play with such foolish intentions, eh?

In other words, the pitcher steps on the rubber, faces his catcher, then delivers the pitch. Fine!

After all, how do you define a "quick pitch?"

"Quick pitching" has never been a difficult call ime. F1's need to respect that Bs have certain leisures in preparing to hit, Ps have certain rythyms, all must dance together. If this rythym is purposefully violated, and in upper levels of ball it isn't often, then we have a QP.

What is too quick? How can you categorically determine that the batter is NOT ready? These are all judgment calls.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

They are but not difficult ones. It comes out of the flow of the game, you know this, it is a feel for things. I have never had problems with QPitching, the rythym of the F1-B is natural to ballplayers.

F1s with intellect know that upsetting that rythym is plain dumb. That is because ex-ballplaying umpires call B-Ss using the same rythyms, don't we?