Pitcher taking signals.
 

NFHS Rules only for now.

R6-S1-A1 states that: He [the pitcher] shall take his sign from the catcher with his pivot foot in contact with the pitcher’s plate.

Play: R1 and the F1 stradles the rubber with the ball in his pitching hand and looks at F2 who gives him some pitching signals. F1 then engages the rubber and again takes pitching signals from F2. Has F1 committed a balk?

MTD, Sr.

Supposedly by FED rules it a balk. This rule is basically a deterrent against the quick pitch. I'm not looking for anything like this. Very poorly worded in the FED rule book in my estimation. You will get many varying opinions on this subject.

I do not know when F1 is getting his signs from F2, nor do I care! The rules (under all 3 codes) are there to prevent F1 from quick pitching to the batter.

Ozzy:

Reread my original play. F1 did not quick pitch. F1 took signals from F2 while in contact with the rubber before starting his pitching motion. How is this quick pitching?

MTD, Sr.

I reread your play. You said originally that F1 took signs while straddling the rubber. Now you said he was in contact. Which is it?

Either way, if no quick pitch was involved, it's a "don't do that." (regardless of what the "rule" says.) Send F2 out to the mound to tell Bozo to take his signs from on the rubber so everyone will be happy campers. Sometimes I'll just tell the catcher not to give the pitcher his sign until he gets on the rubber, and usually F1 gets the hint.

Like Ozzy said, I don't see when the catcher gives the sign, nor do I care if he did or didn't get a sign at all, as long as he doesn't just step on the rubber quickly and quick pitch the batter.

Define "signals".

fitump is on the right track. You can't define signals. If you have a first and third situation, and the catcher steps up and goes through his gyrations for the infield, is that a signal? Yup. If he goes down and taps his shinguard for pick-off, is that a signal? Yes sir it is.

This is a poorly worded rule, that FED, in it's never surprising stupidity, adopted from OBR. If there was one part of OBR that didn't need to be moved over it was this one. Dumb, and dumber.

Play: R1 and the F1 stradles the rubber with the ball in his pitching hand and looks at F2 who gives him some pitching signals. F1 then engages the rubber and again takes pitching signals from F2. Has F1 committed a balk?

Define "signals"

To trick the umps, they used to have F2 squat and give the signs by his posture. A double squat bounce, turn in or out of glove = key, a shrug, a shoulder turn, closed glove = curve, open = fast, tug the mask = .....

Mark, certainly not a balk.

As others have said, the tradition of enforcement of this rule (for FED and otherwise) has been to
1. recognize that the underlying rationale of the rule is to prevent a quick pitch, which would be an illegal pitch (and a balk with runners on); and
2. ignore infractions unless the opposition complains, in which case instruct the pitcher ("don't do that") and, if absolutely necessary, eject for failing to follow instructions (though I can't imagine myself ever actually ejecting for this).

My beleif (and no, I don't have anything to support this), is that the rule, at least in FED, is to help the runners know when F1 is on (or off) the rubber. So. If F1 is straddling the rubber, bent over, peering in at F2 and F2 is in a crouch and holding down fingers between his legs -- it's a balk (by rule). If f1 is straddling the rubber, but standing up,. and F2 is out in front flashing the defense for the R1-R3 play, then it's not a balk.

Have to disagree here, Bob. The infractions penalized for a balk are listed in 6-2-4, and taking signals off the rubber is not listed there.

The relevant rule is 6-1-1, and the relevant sentence is:
The penalty listed in 6-1-1 is for an illegal pitch, which as you know occurs only if the pitcher quick pitches.

I don't see how you can justify calling a balk for this, even under FED.

Read Bob's post again. He very carefully separated the two parts of the move contained in the OP and then describe to different manners in which the first part could be accomplished.

What he is calling a balk by rule, I believe, is a pitcher simulating motions associated with pitch while not in contact with the rubber.

Has anybody here ever called a balk for this in a FED game?

I thought so.........;)

Sigh! Here, Mark, I'll do a cut and paste for you.......
I have no more time for this!