Pitcher taking signals.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

It's plain wrong. I agree. But if this pitcher has only 1 pitch, as you say, you'll allow them to hold runners this way? That's inconsistent ... and just plain wrong.

No, the pitcher has to step on the rubber and allow the batter to get reasonably set in the box. This gives runners plenty of time to get their leads.

If I see a pitcher try to pull the quick step on and pitch act, I will surely not allow them to do it. I will call "Time" every time I see a pitcher try a quick pitch, whether it is intended to fool that batter or the runner, it makes no difference to me.

[SanDiegoSteve]

cbfoulds:

Please cite sources for your time-honored interpretation, because I don't see it in print anywhere. I've searched JEA And MLBUM and there is no such interpretation. Is this just traditional, regional, folklore, what? Show me one shred of a document that says pitchers can take signs from the catcher while off the rubber. I'm not talking about signs from daddy in the stands. Also, I am the one saying that there is no requirement to take a sign at all. As long as the batter is not quick pitched, the pitcher need not take any signs.

[kylejt]

Four pages, and no one has stepped up to define what a sign is.

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by kylejt

Four pages, and no one has stepped up to define what a sign is.

I don't believe this thread was ever about signals, signs, messages from heaven, osmosis or interpretive non-verbal analysis by a pitcher.

It just wasn't.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by kylejt

Four pages, and no one has stepped up to define what a sign is.

Here is how I determine what a sign is. Assume I am in the B or C position so I can see both parties.

• F1 contacts the rubber and looks to F2.
• Any movement that F2 makes (or lack thereof) would be a sign (in my opinion)

It's that simple! This is why I cannot understand the hang-up everyone has about "signs from the catcher".

To address the latter part of this discussion, F1 straddling the rubber as if taking signs then picking off a runner would be a balk.

Regards

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

No, the pitcher has to step on the rubber and allow the batter to get reasonably set in the box. This gives runners plenty of time to get their leads.

If I see a pitcher try to pull the quick step on and pitch act, I will surely not allow them to do it. I will call "Time" every time I see a pitcher try a quick pitch, whether it is intended to fool that batter or the runner, it makes no difference to me.

SDS:

After you call "time," then what are you going to do?

MTD, Sr.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

SDS:

After you call "time," then what are you going to do?

MTD, Sr.

I'm betting he's going to balk him if there are runners...............


Tim.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

I'm betting he's going to balk him if there are runners...............


Tim.

I'm betting not. Perhaps if some of you that so strongly defend never kicking dirt off the rubber would do so, then the runner could see if the pitcher was straddling the rubber.

BTW-6-2-5 doesn't apply to this situation. Straddling the rubber is not a motion associated with a pitch. The key word is motion. Standing still and straddling the rubber is not motion.

And one more thing. It is the catcher giving the signs when the pitcher is off the rubber. Why penalize the pitcher? This a simple FED rule that many are butchering.

Not a balk. Never has been and never will be.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

I'm betting not. Perhaps if some of you that so strongly defend never kicking dirt off the rubber would do so, then the runner could see if the pitcher was straddling the rubber.

Not a balk. Never has been and never will be.

I answered the question as to what Steve would do if the pitcher stepped to the rubber to deliver a quick pitch. It's certainly a balk, and how you can say otherwise is not surprising to me.

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

BTW-6-2-5 doesn't apply to this situation. Straddling the rubber is not a motion associated with a pitch. The key word is motion. Standing still and straddling the rubber is not motion.

Not once have any of us mentioned we'd balk a pitcher for simply straddling the rubber. What we've said is that we would balk him for making a movement naturally associated with his pitch when he leans in while not on the rubber. So, ART - 6 does apply.



Tim.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

I'm betting he's going to balk him if there are runners...............


Tim.

It really depends on the level. In some lower levels, and if I feel that the pitcher simply doesn't know better, on the first such offense I will usually call "Time" and instruct his coach to tell him to take his signs on the rubber and allow the batter to get reasonably set in the box [Rule 8.05(e) comment].

In big boy ball it is most assuredly a balk for an intentional quick pitch designed to hinder either the batter or a base runner.

[LomUmp]

Hey all,

Would any of you balk this scenario...why or why not...

F1 gets ball after play is over. R1 no out, and gets a sign from the bench/F2 on the way to the rubber. F1 quickly goes through the motions and appears to be getting a sign, but is not. F1 then comes to a set and throws the pitch. Batter is ready, but barely. R1 is still trying to get his lead when the pitch is delivered.

I would say no because the intent of the rule, preventing the quick pitch, is not broken since B2 was ready.

LomUmp

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by LomUmp

Hey all,

Would any of you balk this scenario...why or why not...

F1 gets ball after play is over. R1 no out, and gets a sign from the bench/F2 on the way to the rubber. F1 quickly goes through the motions and appears to be getting a sign, but is not. F1 then comes to a set and throws the pitch. Batter is ready, but barely. R1 is still trying to get his lead when the pitch is delivered.

I would say no because the intent of the rule, preventing the quick pitch, is not broken since B2 was ready.

LomUmp

First of all it is just NOT important where the pitcher gets his signal from, even if it's from outerspace.

Second, any good official as a PU, is just not going to let this happen. I personnaly will be given the pitcher a "Do Not Pitch" signal until B1 is ready. Then I will point to the pitch and sometimes verbally say "Pitch." MOST of the time, the pitcher will begin to take their sign and then begin their pitching motion. In your scenario the pitcher will just come set and then pitch but, remember the pitcher has to come to a complete stop with a baserunner.

So as you see this is just not happening.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by jicecone

Second, any good official as a PU, is just not going to let this happen. I personnaly will be given the pitcher a "Do Not Pitch" signal until B1 is ready. Then I will point to the pitch and sometimes verbally say "Pitch." MOST of the time, the pitcher will begin to take their sign and then begin their pitching motion. In your scenario the pitcher will just come set and then pitch but, remember the pitcher has to come to a complete stop with a baserunner.

There is no such thing as a true "Do Not Pitch" signal in FED or OBR. The FED has now made it a dead ball when this is signaled. When you hold up your palm toward the pitcher you have in effect called "Time" and killed the ball.

If the ball is already dead, then that's alright to do. When the ball is still alive, however, it is not recommended to hold your hand because you kill the ball and any possible play that might have occurred. For instance, the runner at first was just about to take off for second, but you killed the ball. Not good.

If a pitcher isn't paying attention as the batter is getting set in the box, I will tell him verbally to wait until the batter is set before starting his delivery.