I've finally seen it............

[NEohioref]

I may be slow, but what is your point? I always brush off the bases. I never wear a ball bag on the bases. My question maybe worse than the Diebler but im lost...(see basketball forum for Diebler)But again Im a sports official,according to coaches I'm always lost.

[Tim C]

"NEohioref":

I just think you need to understand where many of us come from . . . brushing off bases SCREAMS (poorly trained) small diamond umpire.

We try hard on this site (each in our own way) to elevate, educate and share things that make umpires better.

Why would ANYONE brush off a base* . . . they are 4" high and everyone knows where they are.

It is similar to using an indicator on the bases. It just screams certain things to other umpires.

*Feel free to "brush a base" with your foot (no real base umpire would carry a brush on to the field) if two players are in "intense" conmversation . . . make sure you stand between them . . . otherwise leave the brushing of a base to the players.

Regards,

Jon Dielber is in MY HOF!

[NEohioref]

Thanks for not ripping me a new one. I brush off bases in H.S,N.S.A,and little ball. It gives me something to do besides looking ugly,bored,lost.Do u not brush off the pitching plate? How do u handle dusty fields?(let the fielder handle it ,water them down i know)Again like you said to each there own. Please dont kill me guys,but I felt naked saturday w/o my brush. I left it in my other ball bag.That is the sign of a smitty more then brushing off bases.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by NEohioref

Thanks for not ripping me a new one. I brush off bases in H.S,N.S.A,and little ball. It gives me something to do besides looking ugly,bored,lost.Do u not brush off the pitching plate? How do u handle dusty fields?(let the fielder handle it ,water them down i know)Again like you said to each there own.

No I would never brush off the pitching plate? What is the purpose of you doing this? Who cares about how dusty the field is. I can see the plate from any position on the field.

Secondly as someone who works other sports, it is common to see officials do things that make them look like a complete rookie. You will never see any higher level umpires do these the things you suggest. Just like you will never see high level officials in either baseball or football wear an adjustable hat. It just looks hokey.

Peace

[Lawrence.Dorsey]

I don't make it a habit of brushing bases but there is one HS field I work that for some reason has a sandpit that serves as a second base cutout. The bases they use are of the same color (I think they were originally white but over time have become an off white). I will occasionally clean around the base area with my foot or ask a player to clean around the base just to give some contrast. This usually occurs after a couple of steals of 2nd in short order.

I can't understand why that area is such a mess. The head coach keeps the infield grass looking great, it's probably one of the best infields we have in the area.

Interesting sidebar on cleaning bases. Jim Evans recommends never cleaning a base. It has nothing to do with protocol or looking like a rookie. He says that a good cue to look for on a base touch by a runner is whether dirt flies off the bag as he attempts to touch the bag. Leaving dirt on the bag gives you an edge.



Lawrence

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by Lawrence.Dorsey

I don't make it a habit of brushing bases but there is one HS field I work that for some reason has a sandpit that serves as a second base cutout. The bases they use are of the same color (I think they were originally white but over time have become an off white). I will occasionally clean around the base area with my foot or ask a player to clean around the base just to give some contrast. This usually occurs after a couple of steals of 2nd in short order.

I can't understand why that area is such a mess. The head coach keeps the infield grass looking great, it's probably one of the best infields we have in the area.

Interesting sidebar on cleaning bases. Jim Evans recommends never cleaning a base. It has nothing to do with protocol or looking like a rookie. He says that a good cue to look for on a base touch by a runner is whether dirt flies off the bag as he attempts to touch the bag. Leaving dirt on the bag gives you an edge.

Lawrence

Chewed up dirt areas like you mention must be a PITA, I guess you have to dig them out completely and replace. 2B is a high action area.

Evans is a bright guy and the few umps I have had come through our org, who wanted to go Pro Ump, I recommended Jim. I call him "Jim" only because he and I have had many discussions about those who have taken his copyrighted works and sold or illegally distributed them. Sadly, I know these people and immediately turned them in

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by Tim C

Why would ANYONE brush off a base* . . . they are 4" high and everyone knows where they are.
!

Then why do they change out the bases in MLB at least once per game (in many parks).

I often kick bases clean usually because I am also push-pulling the dirt away from the basepath side of the bag.

Timmie, maybe some of us are more concerned about showing effort, amking things better as best we can, and stewardship to the game than trying to meet silly standards "old hats" like you setup to determine who meets your expectations of a good umpire.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by fitump56

Then why do they change out the bases in MLB at least once per game (in many parks).

I often kick bases clean usually because I am also push-pulling the dirt away from the basepath side of the bag.

Timmie, maybe some of us are more concerned about showing effort, amking things better as best we can, and stewardship to the game than trying to meet silly standards "old hats" like you setup to determine who meets your expectations of a good umpire.

Do the umpires change the bases in an MLB park?


Tim.

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by fitump56
Then why do they change out the bases in MLB at least once per game (in many parks).

I often kick bases clean usually because I am also push-pulling the dirt away from the basepath side of the bag.

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

Do the umpires change the bases in an MLB park?
Tim.

Why is it I feel like I am towing a piece of hamburger and there is a hungry dog snarfing my heels?

Point out where I said MLB umps do that but, of course, you knew I didn't. Hungry dogs snarf first, think later.

I suppose you don't clean the plate (what, you do?) and I am sure you don't clean the base fronts as I have said I do so above, is it below you or too far for you to walk?

Your turn.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by fitump56

Originally Posted by fitump56
Then why do they change out the bases in MLB at least once per game (in many parks).

I often kick bases clean usually because I am also push-pulling the dirt away from the basepath side of the bag.



Why is it I feel like I am towing a piece of hamburger and there is a hungry dog snarfing my heels?

Point out where I said MLB umps do that but, of course, you knew I didn't. Hungry dogs snarf first, think later.

I suppose you don't clean the plate (what, you do?) and I am sure you don't clean the base fronts as I have said I do so above, is it below you or to far for you to walk?

Your turn.

No need to get upset. I was just asking a question. I saw you were trying to draw a parallel between amature umpires brushing off the bases and certain MLB parks changing the bases entirely during a game. I didn't then, and still don't see the connection.

And yes, I clean the plate. Then again, it's not raised above the dirt by two to three inches like the bases are, so it can become quite covered up at times. Call me a stickler for details, but I like to see the plate when I'm trying to call balls and strikes.


And again, the answer is yes I'll kick the dirt off of a bag if it gets so covered that I might have a hard time seeing it. It doesn't happen a lot though as most of the fields I work aren't sand pits like some I've seen.


Tim.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by fitump56

Timmie, maybe some of us are more concerned about showing effort, amking things better as best we can, and stewardship to the game than trying to meet silly standards "old hats" like you setup to determine who meets your expectations of a good umpire.

Do you realize how dumb that sounds? It is not just umpires that have these standards, it is the coaches. If you do things that make you stand out or look like you do not know what you are doing, they will try you more.

Let me ask you this. Do you go to a job interview in jeans and a T-shirt? No matter how qualified you think you are at anything, someone expects you to adhere to some standards in order to look or appear competent. I can tell by your postings competency is really not your strong suit.

Peace

[Don Mueller]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Do you realize how dumb that sounds? It is not just umpires that have these standards, it is the coaches. If you do things that make you stand out or look like you do not know what you are doing, they will try you more.

I don't want to jump to conclusions, so I'll ask:
Are you saying that if you brush off a base you look like you don't know what you're doing?
the question is to you and the others who seemingly have the same opinion.

I had a 15 yr travel game the other night, solo, R2. Pickoff F1 to F6.
there was zero color differentiation between base and dirt, between the bodies and being 120' away I couldn't even see the bump.
Makes it real difficult to make an accurate call.

Betwwen innings I walked out kicked the bag and when I still couldn't see white I pulled out my brush.
IMO, anyone who thinks that is unprofessional has a warped sense of professionalism.
I'd say ability to see base is right up there with angle and distance.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by Don Mueller

Are you saying that if you brush off a base you look like you don't know what you're doing?

To experienced coaches and trained umpires, yes.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Don Mueller

I don't want to jump to conclusions, so I'll ask:
Are you saying that if you brush off a base you look like you don't know what you're doing? The question is to you and the others who seemingly have the same opinion.

I had a 15 yr travel game the other night, solo, R2. Pickoff F1 to F6.
there was zero color differentiation between base and dirt, between the bodies and being 120' away I couldn't even see the bump.
Makes it real difficult to make an accurate call.

Betwwen innings I walked out kicked the bag and when I still couldn't see white I pulled out my brush.
IMO, anyone who thinks that is unprofessional has a warped sense of professionalism.
I'd say ability to see base is right up there with angle and distance.

Here is the problem; you and others are trying to oversimplify this discussion. You do not see a Major League Umpire or a D1 umpire brush off the bag with a plate brush. Now it is called a plate brush for a reason. The very same reason you do not see basketball officials wear a collared shirt either. If you do it either means you are not very well trained or you are not a very knowledgeable as an umpire or official. Now you can think whatever you like. But whether you like it or not, when someone is trying to decide to give someone a big game or move up in a level, they will use things like what I just told you as part of the discussion. Because if you bring out a plate brush to wipe off the a base, chances area you are doing other things that are not considered professional. Also someone might scrutinize you much harsher as well. I have yet to find anyone that teaches this. I did this for about 2 games and I was told to stop. I did not question the person, but they told me it looked bad and made me seem like a rookie and I have not done this since. This is no different than wearing a ball bag on the bases as well.

You do not have to agree. But I will also not be making decisions about your career or your umpiring opportunities. I do not see a big deal going to an interview without a tie or chewing gum, but the person that is doing the interview just might.

Also keep in mind you said you were working a 15 year old travel tournament. That level does not have the same expectation of umpire professionalism as working a HS varsity game or a college and pro game.

Peace

[Don Mueller]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Here is the problem; you and others are trying to oversimplify this discussion. You do not see a Major League Umpire or a D1 umpire brush off the bag with a plate brush.

95% of the folks on this board are not MLB, MiLB or D1. Never do any of these umps ever have to make a call from 120'

Field conditions are also much different at most Babe ruth, travel fields and in house fields. Sometimes one has to improvise

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Now it is called a plate brush for a reason. The very same reason you do not see basketball officials wear a collared shirt either.

Brushing off a base so you can see it at 120' is much different than wearing a collared shirt.
One is necessitated to help insure a correct call, the other is a matter of uniform.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If you do it either means you are not very well trained or you are not a very knowledgeable as an umpire or official.

The trained umpire by definition has xray eyes and can see thrugh the dirt at 120'
Give me a break!!
It's a matter of seeing the base or not seeing the base.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Now you can think whatever you like. But whether you like it or not, when someone is trying to decide to give someone a big game or move up in a level, they will use things like what I just told you as part of the discussion.

You are such an elitist.
I'd venture to say that over 95% of the baseball games played in this country are below the HS varsity level. When umpiring below that level field conditions vary from excellent to very poor.
When I'm doing a solo 15 yr old game I'm not interviewing for the ASU vs USC game. I'm doing what's necessary to give the 15 yr olds a quality officiated game and if that means I have to brush off 2nd in order to see it, so be it.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Because if you bring out a plate brush to wipe off the a base, chances area you are doing other things that are not considered professional.
Also someone might scrutinize you much harsher as well. I have yet to find anyone that teaches this. I did this for about 2 games and I was told to stop. I did not question the person, but they told me it looked bad and made me seem like a rookie and I have not done this since.

If it's 2 man I totally agree, not if you're solo and you can't see the white of the bag.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

This is no different than wearing a ball bag on the bases as well.

It's no different than wearing a collared shirt in basketball but much different than brushing a base out of necessity

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Also keep in mind you said you were working a 15 year old travel tournament. That level does not have the same expectation of umpire professionalism as working a HS varsity game or a college and pro game.

See elitist comment above