I've finally seen it............

[Don Mueller]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

99% of non-umpires judge us on things that they see on TV or at the local MLB stadium. That is just the way it is whether you or I like it.

Fun with Numbers
98% of the people have never been to a MLB stadium and 99.9% of the people watching TV never see the umpire until there's a s#@%storm.
So contrary to your assertion I say no one but other anal umps will ever judge me based on what they see on TV.
The next time a MLB ump has to make a call from 120' with the 7:00 sun bearing down from RCF on a dirt colored base will be the first time.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Actually it is not, but then again I am experienced in both.

Experience has never been a good substitution for common sense

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am still having a hard time trying to understand why it is hard to see a base that is raised off the ground. Also I do not see even most youth fields so bad that dirt is stacked on top of each base. Usually most youth fields I have worked on they do water the dirt and they rack the dirt.

I never said all fields or most fields, in fact the other day when I Brushed 2nd was the first time I'd ever done it, but the conditions were such that it in my opinion dictated it.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Don, you are sadly mistaken. Basketball is just like any other sport that has mores that are expected for the officials to look like they know what they are doing. BTW, I just finished my last basketball camp on Sunday. Most of the comments that were made about me were about presentation, appearance, use of voice, ability to run and the last thing that was talked about was calls I actually made. Why is that, because officials at a certain level are going to have equal or similar ability to make a call? The other things I listed show an official's confidence and give the perception they know what the hell they are doing. It is very hard in a basketball game (applies to baseball too) for a coach to say I was not in position when I hustled and I make the call. Even how we sell a basic all can tell on us as an official to how much we know about the game.

I was LJ at a varsity football game last year where I actually leaned down picked up the orange end zone pylon and put it back in place. I've never ever seen an NFL ref do such a thing. Maybe that's why I haven't got that D1 assignment yet.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If I am an elitist, you are a weekend warrior. We are judged as officials from the way deal with the secretary at the school to the time we leave the field or gym that we officiate.

When I'm not warring on the weekends I manage a few salesman. Some do what it takes to get the job done and others don't move a muscle if it ain't on the job description.
When it comes time to pass out the perks or I need to assign an account, who do you think gets first priority?

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Also do not think all lower level coaches have not played or have not coached the game for years. They are often judging you in ways you will never know. There is a reason some umpires are always having problems and other umpires hardly ever have problems.

Suddenly experienced coaches know the do and don'ts of an umpire, even know proper mechanics?
Either the coaches are rats and have no idea as to rules, mechanics and nuances of an umpire or they do. Don't suddenly give them credit for their incredible insighfulness when it suits your side of an argument.
That's being a hypocrite.

I've never worked a 2 or 3 man game game where I or my P have brushed a bag so I don't know if there is a correlation between brushing a bag and trouble with game management. Perhaps you're privy to some studies I haven't seen.
On the surface I see no correlation between brushing a bag and lack of game management skills.
Are there bag brushers who struggle with game management? I'm sure there are. Are there non bag brushers who have trouble with game management? Absolutely.
When I'm BU I will never brush a bag for 2 reasons.
1. I won't have a brush
2. I'm not using my hands

But not because I think there is some cosmic bad karma that's going to hit me if I do.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I went for about a 5 to 6 year stretch without ejecting a single coach. In many of those cases I was never seen before by the coaches and I had some really tough plays to call. I can assure you that a large reason for that was because I was trained on the dos and donts of umpiring and I looked like I was in position and hustled every single time I was on a field during that time. Also most umpires that I know that really take umpiring seriously, want to work HS and HS varsity because the pay usually goes up and people they work with are much better. If you are just a LL umpire and you want to brush the dirt off with your plate brush that might be something that works at that level. When you start working games beyond that, you better be more competent in what you are doing. If not, you will be run out off the field a lot quicker.

Good umpires are not in the habit of making assumptions.
I do not do in season college ball and I do not do LL but in between I do all levels.
Travel ball actually pays more than varsity. The good 14 and 15 yr old travel teams are as good if not better than many varsity programs.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Once again this is just an opinion. Feel free to ignore them. I am just sharing something to help out those out that do not know any better.

Peace

If every opinion was the same the forum would be quite boring

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by NEohioref

This is funny to me. My dad has not been to 17 state games,he is not even a official in any sport. I just threw that one out for reaction. But what really surprises me is if something doesnt meet your standard or if you dont agree with what is being done its wrong. Jim Evans didnt teach us that ect..., I know some of us take officiating very seriously and would like to take it to the next level. Would I clean the bases while working at a higher level? Probably not. A earlier poster said show me in any umpire manuel/rules book that says base umpire must keep the bases clean. True it doesnt say its required,but at the same time it doesnt say never do it. I dont have a MLB umpires manuel, but Im sure it doesnt say base umpire shouldnver have an indicator on the field. This is food for thought you do the dishes. An to the comment about the french maid outfit, I do wear proper umpire attire on the field. But your wife can come and pick her outfit anytime she wants to. She is great.

I think most have given their say on the matter quite clearly. If you feel it's necessary to brush the bases and pitcher's plate go right ahead. I think you should also call time and brush off all the base runner's cleats too. After all they're much easier to see when they're clean.


Tim.

[NEohioref]

very nice post

[Don Mueller]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

1) On a pickoff, "safe". On a steal, "out"

2) I would never know whether kicking the bag would change it's color.

There are three things I don't do on the field: Give a rules clinic, demonstrate balks, perform field maintenance.

When was the last time you did a solo game?

You brush the plate, that's maintenance, and there is a good reason for it at 5' feet away you want to see the corners and know when the sliding runners foot touches. So why at 120' is there such an uproar when an ump wants to see the bag?

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by Don Mueller

When was the last time you did a solo game?

You brush the plate, that's maintenance, and there is a good reason for it at 5' feet away you want to see the corners and know when the sliding runners foot touches. So why at 120' is there such an uproar when an ump wants to see the bag?

Don,

I'm sorry, but comparing homeplate to the bases in this discussion is a straw man argument. We don't keep the plate clean to see plays there better. We keep it clean so we can call an acceptable strike zone. I know I can can have multiple runners cross homeplate darned near covering it up and then have a tag play transpire, and I can still make my call with confidence.

I mentioned to you before that there's no way you running out to clean second base gives you a better view of a tag play there. The best you can see is if the runner was close enough and ask yourself if he beat the ball there or vice versa.


Tim.

[Tim C]

"This is funny to me. My dad has not been to 17 state games,he is not even a official in any sport. I just threw that one out for reaction. But what really surprises me is if something doesnt meet your standard or if you dont agree with what is being done its wrong. Jim Evans didnt teach us that ect..., I know some of us take officiating very seriously and would like to take it to the next level. Would I clean the bases while working at a higher level? Probably not. A earlier poster said show me in any umpire manuel/rules book that says base umpire must keep the bases clean. True it doesnt say its required,but at the same time it doesnt say never do it. I dont have a MLB umpires manuel, but Im sure it doesnt say base umpire shouldnver have an indicator on the field. This is food for thought you do the dishes. An to the comment about the french maid outfit, I do wear proper umpire attire on the field. But your wife can come and pick her outfit anytime she wants to. She is great."

This kind of sets up my answer:

It has always been my opinion that guys such as Pete Booth, Bob Jenkins, Tim Haag, Rich Fronheiser, Jeff Rutledge, Ozzy, lawump, Steve Meyer, mbyron, Garth B, DavidB and others offer insight into how to umpire because they care.

Most of these gents also teach umpiring to various levels of umpiring.

When we try to teach someone who is interested in learning it is exciting for all of us. But sadly, we also get umpires who first ACT as if they would like help but continue to argue their way.

I think what all of us old hides have tried to say in this thread is that perception is important. Sometimes perception is critical.

If you want to carry a brush on the bases, wear plate pants on the bases, uses an indicator on the bases, tell a pitcher the count and outs as a base umpire, stay near the mound when a coach comes out to talk to a pitcher just keep on doing what you are doing.

The issue comes from people's perception of you and that will not change.

If an umpire wants to learn I think there is a wonderful advantage of reading threads on the internet. You can get a real good picture of what is probably correct in most areas.

Like everything you need to filter what works for you.

I will make a coaching analogy:

When I was a player my coaches always said: "Tee, be glad we are yelling at you -- it means we care and think you have a future in sport . . . worry when we don't yell at you, it means we have given up."

I "yell" at fewer and fewer internet umpires every month . . . it is sad.

Regards,

[lawump]

To answer/repond to various points made in this thread since my last post:

UmpLarryJohnson: As to the relief pitcher asking the BU for the count: As I indicated in my post, the pitcher would ask the BU for the count after his warm-ups but before his first pitch. (Re-read my post). I hope to God you're still not out in the outfield at this point. (However, I think a number of posters in this thread are out in left field, permanently.)

NEohioref: It is not a written instruction to pro umps not to carry an indicator on the bases but it is DEFINITELY a spoken instruction. If you carry one on the base you will be "zinged" on your evaluation as this procedure (don't carry one on the bases) has been clearly communicated.

To all about homeplate: Frankly, and not to sound like I have too big an ego, but once a game gets going and I get into a groove behind the plate...I don't really need to see the plate in order to call balls and strikes. The plate doesn't move...trust me, I know where it is. I keep it spotless...to keep up appearences for the RATS. If the plate is dirty, they will say, "how can you call that a strike, you don't even know where the plate is." The truth is that the plate doesn't move. I know where it is. But I placate them and keep my plate spotless.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Don Mueller

Fun with Numbers
98% of the people have never been to a MLB stadium and 99.9% of the people watching TV never see the umpire until there's a s#@%storm.
So contrary to your assertion I say no one but other anal umps will ever judge me based on what they see on TV.
The next time a MLB ump has to make a call from 120' with the 7:00 sun bearing down from RCF on a dirt colored base will be the first time.

My comment does not include people like my mother that would never go to a baseball game unless I dragged her there.

Originally Posted by Don Mueller

Experience has never been a good substitution for common sense

True statement. Sad part is I agree but for different reasons.

Originally Posted by Don Mueller

I never said all fields or most fields, in fact the other day when I Brushed 2nd was the first time I'd ever done it, but the conditions were such that it in my opinion dictated it.

I also never made a comment about the level of ball the fields this might apply or might not apply. But you jumped to a conclusion about the level as if that would change how I or others feel about this situation.

Originally Posted by Don Mueller

I was LJ at a varsity football game last year where I actually leaned down picked up the orange end zone pylon and put it back in place. I've never ever seen an NFL ref do such a thing. Maybe that's why I haven't got that D1 assignment yet.

Well, I have seen NFL officials move the pylon back. As a matter of fact that was the case the last NFL game I attended. Once again you are missing the point. It is not about cleaning off the bag, it is about using a plate brush. Officials might put the pylon back because they just were involved in a play where the pylon moved.

Originally Posted by Don Mueller

When I'm not warring on the weekends I manage a few salesman. Some do what it takes to get the job done and others don't move a muscle if it ain't on the job description.
When it comes time to pass out the perks or I need to assign an account, who do you think gets first priority?

I did not ask you about your real job.

Originally Posted by Don Mueller

Suddenly experienced coaches know the do and don'ts of an umpire, even know proper mechanics?
Either the coaches are rats and have no idea as to rules, mechanics and nuances of an umpire or they do. Don't suddenly give them credit for their incredible insighfulness when it suits your side of an argument.
That's being a hypocrite.

I am not saying they know everything. They do expect us to behave in a professional manner and there are things that tell on our experience or our competence level. Umpiring/Officiating is about survival. When you do things that make you look new or inexperienced, a coach will take advantage of it. It is not always fair or right. It just is that way.

Originally Posted by Don Mueller

I've never worked a 2 or 3 man game game where I or my P have brushed a bag so I don't know if there is a correlation between brushing a bag and trouble with game management. Perhaps you're privy to some studies I haven't seen.
On the surface I see no correlation between brushing a bag and lack of game management skills.
Are there bag brushers who struggle with game management? I'm sure there are. Are there non bag brushers who have trouble with game management? Absolutely.
When I'm BU I will never brush a bag for 2 reasons.
1. I won't have a brush
2. I'm not using my hands

But not because I think there is some cosmic bad karma that's going to hit me if I do.

Even if you are right, the reality is that someone that you might have to deal with will think you are not as well trained. Then when you do not do the other things perfect, they will draw their own conclusions. I think you are putting way too much on whether someone brushes off a bag or not. I do not think anyone said your entire career was based on this one fact. But when you do things like this, it usually does not stop there. Can you show me anywhere in any book where this is apart of our job description? If you cannot show me, then that just goes to show you are advocating something that is not expected of us. If you do not know the basics, what rule do you not know? What mechanic do you not understand? What game management skill have you not been told about?

Originally Posted by Don Mueller

Good umpires are not in the habit of making assumptions.
I do not do in season college ball and I do not do LL but in between I do all levels.
Travel ball actually pays more than varsity. The good 14 and 15 yr old travel teams are as good if not better than many varsity programs.

If every opinion was the same the forum would be quite boring

I did not make any assumptions. You said you did this at a 15 year old travel league. I think you might agree that working a travel league does not have the same expectations or requirements as a HS or college level game. Even a freshman game requires an umpire to have a license and to follow certain protocols or they will not work that level or they will stay at the freshman level the rest of their career. I can work a travel league game and the only requirement is for me to have a uniform and maybe some protection. I really do not understand why you are so sensitive about this. You are the one that brought up the level you did this at.

Peace

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Don Mueller

When was the last time you did a solo game?

7/9/07.

I didn't brush off the rubber or the bases. To be fair, we got rained out before the game was complete.

The last complete solo was 7/3/07. No brushing there, either.

[Jim Porter]

The last time I brushed off the old bag, it was years ago when I accidentally kicked some sand on my mother-in-law.

[Don Mueller]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am not saying they know everything. They do expect us to behave in a professional manner and there are things that tell on our experience or our competence level. Umpiring/Officiating is about survival.

I've never considered umpiring or officiating a game of survival. Proper game management skills allow the vast majority of games to go smooth.
In the rare case a storm hits then I take it as a challenge to get through it professionally, making proper rulings and keeping my integrity. If the adrenaline spikes a bit it's invigorating.
Never do I take the field with the thought of hoping to survive.
Talk about coaches smelling blood.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

When you do things that make you look new or inexperienced, a coach will take advantage of it. It is not always fair or right. It just is that way.

Here's the thing, I'm not new and I'm not inexperienced, there is nothing to take advantage of.
Good game management skills trump bag brushing.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Even if you are right, the reality is that someone that you might have to deal with will think you are not as well trained.

Aren't you the one that says you could care less what others think when you're on the field?

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Then when you do not do the other things perfect, they will draw their own conclusions.

And I care why?

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I think you are putting way too much on whether someone brushes off a bag or not.

No I think everyone else is including yourself.
I have simply said that in order to see the bag at 120' I have no problem brushing it. That was in response to many people on this thread calling anyone who brushes a bag a smitty.
It's ok to kick the bag, but heaven forbid you actually lean down and accomplish something.

Would you prefer umping a game on a lined field or unlined?
On a fly down the line, it's much more accurate if you have a foul line. Of course if you don't you make your best guess. If there is a line it takes the guess work out.

To those who have occasion to work a game solo and 2b happens to be dirty beyond kicking and you choose to call blind because you ego or energy level doesn't allow you to clean it then IMO it shows your commitment level, or lack thereof. Maybe it gives an insight to who is really there for just a paycheck.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I did not make any assumptions. You said you did this at a 15 year old travel league. I think you might agree that working a travel league does not have the same expectations or requirements as a HS or college level game.

Apparently you don't work any high profile travel tournaments. The expectations are as high as any varsity contest.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Even a freshman game requires an umpire to have a license and to follow certain protocols or they will not work that level or they will stay at the freshman level the rest of their career. I can work a travel league game and the only requirement is for me to have a uniform and maybe some protection. I really do not understand why you are so sensitive about this. You are the one that brought up the level you did this at.

Peace

You called it LL, I was just correcting you.

Does your association take any one with a mask and a shirt to do games?
If that's the case I can see it being pretty easy to get to varsity and college in your area.

[tcarilli]

Originally Posted by lawump

To all about homeplate:...I don't really need to see the plate in order to call balls and strikes. The plate doesn't move...trust me, I know where it is...The truth is that the plate doesn't move. I know where it is.

Here! Here!

[Don Mueller]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

Don,

I'm sorry, but comparing homeplate to the bases in this discussion is a straw man argument. We don't keep the plate clean to see plays there better. We keep it clean so we can call an acceptable strike zone. I know I can can have multiple runners cross homeplate darned near covering it up and then have a tag play transpire, and I can still make my call with confidence.

I mentioned to you before that there's no way you running out to clean second base gives you a better view of a tag play there. The best you can see is if the runner was close enough and ask yourself if he beat the ball there or vice versa.


Tim.

I agree with the SZ comment, that is why I said "to see the corners"
but I also like to see the plate on the first play at the plate

[Don Mueller]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

7/9/07.

I didn't brush off the rubber or the bases. To be fair, we got rained out before the game was complete.

The last complete solo was 7/3/07. No brushing there, either.

touche

I'm not sure how rubber brushing got included in the DM bashing but so be it.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Don Mueller

Apparently you don't work any high profile travel tournaments. The expectations are as high as any varsity contest.

Not for me. I don't care how much they pay or how far they travel. I treat it no differently. Someone needs to go, they go just as quickly as if it was the guy from the local league.