The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Baseball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jul 14, 2007, 12:23am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Sierra Nevada Mtns
Posts: 3,220
No such thing as a timing play?

Amer Legion - OBR

Runners at R2@2B & R1@3B 2 outs.

Ball hit to F5. R2 has passed F6 on the way to 3B, for whatever reason, F5 chases R2 who turns around heading back to 2B. By the time the tag is made, BR is at first and R1 has scored.

I score the run & out 3.

Coach has a mild myocardial infarction, I tell him its a timing play, BR reached 1st safely and R1 made it home.

Coach tells me there is no such thing as a timing play, thats softball (he knows I am primarily a FP umpire), that its a continuation play, the run should not score.

Well, I was confused so I just ended the convo ruling stood, end of story. Nearly had to eject the score keeper who was whining as well that it was a "continuation play"..

So I come to the experts.. what say you?
__________________
ASA, NCAA, NFHS
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jul 14, 2007, 12:44am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,458
You're taking money to work this level of baseball, and you don't know this basic rule? I'm not usually like some of leatherheads that roam this board, but if you're taking cash to work Legion games, you've got to know this.

I teach 12 year old LL umpires to know this in their first month of training. They'll tap their wrist when timing plays are possible. Congratulations for failing my class.

Excuse me while I eject myself for being rude.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jul 14, 2007, 12:56am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: SW Kansas
Posts: 728
Quote:
Originally Posted by wadeintothem

Coach tells me there is no such thing as a timing play, thats softball (he knows I am primarily a FP umpire), that its a continuation play, the run should not score.
I say tack this onto your "stupid crap I've heard coaches say" board.

Right next to the time a coach told me "once a ball is foul, it's foul" when a bunt down the line crossed the foul line, hit the edge of the grass, and rolled back fair before touched by F1. Oddly enough, this was a Legion coach too. Maybe it's something in the water?
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jul 14, 2007, 01:00am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Sierra Nevada Mtns
Posts: 3,220
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonInKansas
I say tack this onto your "stupid crap I've heard coaches say" board.

Right next to the time a coach told me "once a ball is foul, it's foul" when a bunt down the line crossed the foul line, hit the edge of the grass, and rolled back fair before touched by F1. Oddly enough, this was a Legion coach too. Maybe it's something in the water?
I had no clue what he was talking about, I just refused to engage in the convo when he said it.. I just wanted to be sure.
__________________
ASA, NCAA, NFHS
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jul 14, 2007, 01:02am
In Time Out
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: In a hut
Posts: 911
Send a message via AIM to fitump56 Send a message via MSN to fitump56 Send a message via Yahoo to fitump56 Send a message via Skype™ to fitump56
Quote:
Originally Posted by wadeintothem
Amer Legion - OBR

Runners at R2@2B & R1@3B 2 outs.

Ball hit to F5. R2 has passed F6 on the way to 3B, for whatever reason, F5 chases R2 who turns around heading back to 2B. By the time the tag is made, BR is at first and R1 has scored.

I score the run & out 3.

Coach has a mild myocardial infarction, I tell him its a timing play, BR reached 1st safely and R1 made it home.

Coach tells me there is no such thing as a timing play, thats softball (he knows I am primarily a FP umpire), that its a continuation play, the run should not score.

Well, I was confused so I just ended the convo ruling stood, end of story. Nearly had to eject the score keeper who was whining as well that it was a "continuation play"..

So I come to the experts.. what say you?
First, everyone gets rattled and confused from time to time. This was your real problem. How do you handle things when you get pressed and the mind takes an intermittent bleeep? You had the call right, you didn't give yourself time, and the coach a show of "respect" (yeah, he didn't deserve it but read on).

I am fortunate to work with partners who, in many ways, are better than I am . So I have a place to go to sort things out. If you don't this will work for you too.

When Coach comes out on you, and you feel yourself searching for the right response but can't find it,

"Coach, hold on just a minute."

Go over to your partner, if he is good, then talk it through, if not, then tell him "I'm coming over here to get a mental recharge, we had R2, R3, etc etc"...the rule will come back to you given a breather to think without being pressed.

Return to Coach (who by the very act of taking time to discuss his viewpoint shows "respect" for his (lousy) opinion.. that's what it will look like), "Coach, it's a timing play, I'm sure of it. Play and scoring stands."
__________________
"Never try to teach a pig to eat reasonably. It wastes your time and the pig will argue that he is fat because of genetics. While drinking a 2.675 six packs a day."

Last edited by fitump56; Sat Jul 14, 2007 at 01:08am.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jul 14, 2007, 01:04am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Washington State
Posts: 209
An answer

Quote:
Originally Posted by wadeintothem
well, when I need advice on lame mechanics taught to LL umpires, I know who to look up. Hopefully one of the OBR experts knows the answer to my question though.

Oh and "this level of ball" is not that impressive... as evidenced by the play. I was just happy they made a 3rd out finally.
Even Little League umpires can read OBR Rules:
Quote:
4.09
HOW A TEAM SCORES.
(a) One run shall be scored each time a runner legally advances to and touches first, second, third and home base before three men are put out to end the inning. EXCEPTION: A run is not scored if the runner advances to home base during a play in which the third out is made (1) by the batter-runner before he touches first base; (2) by any runner being forced out; or (3) by a preceding runner who is declared out because he failed to touch one of the bases.
__________________
-LilLeaguer
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jul 14, 2007, 01:12am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Sierra Nevada Mtns
Posts: 3,220
Quote:
Originally Posted by LilLeaguer
Even Little League umpires can read OBR Rules:
That wasnt my question, my question was the term "continuation play" vs "timing play not existing in OBR" comment made by an long time 18U American Legion coach and a scorekeeper.

You little leaguers are going off in the wrong area. I thought perhaps the term was different or some other aspect of which I was not aware. I scored the run based on exactly what you quoted... which btw, does not include the term "timing play"

essentially checking nomenclature or perhaps a rule involving a "continuation play" of which I was not aware.

Question has been answers though, and thanks to those who did.
__________________
ASA, NCAA, NFHS
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jul 14, 2007, 01:58am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 387
Quote:
Originally Posted by wadeintothem
That wasnt my question, my question was the term "continuation play" vs "timing play not existing in OBR" comment made by an long time 18U American Legion coach and a scorekeeper.

You little leaguers are going off in the wrong area. I thought perhaps the term was different or some other aspect of which I was not aware. I scored the run based on exactly what you quoted... which btw, does not include the term "timing play"

essentially checking nomenclature or perhaps a rule involving a "continuation play" of which I was not aware.

Question has been answers though, and thanks to those who did.
Uh huh ... "Timing play" is the ONLY correct answer. Please advise just where the term "Continuation play" appears in the OBR rules relating to scoring.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jul 14, 2007, 03:08am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: South Bend, In.
Posts: 2,192
Send a message via AIM to BigUmp56 Send a message via Yahoo to BigUmp56
Quote:
Originally Posted by wadeintothem
well, when I need advice on lame mechanics taught to LL umpires, I know who to look up. Hopefully one of the OBR experts knows the answer to my question though.

Tapping your wrist with two outs and a runner in scoring position is used in all levels of amature baseball to communicate to your partner you have a potential "timing play". It's not a mechanic you should so easily dismiss as one used only by "LL" umpires.


Tim.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jul 14, 2007, 09:31am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Washington
Posts: 1,491
Send a message via AIM to RPatrino Send a message via Yahoo to RPatrino
Little league uses rules based on OBR. The timing play is the same regardless of rule set. The use of the "time play" signal is almost universal, and I don't find it lame in the least.

However, more important than understanding the signal, is an understanding of the rule. As far as the coach and his 'continuation' play, I would have just told him there is no such thing. How long would you debate with a coach who insists that the 'hands are part of the bat '?
__________________
Bob P.

-----------------------
We are stewards of baseball. Our customers aren't schools or coaches or conferences. Our customer is the game itself.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jul 14, 2007, 10:08am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,057
Send a message via Yahoo to UmpJM
Cool

Wadeintothem,

While interpretations manuals (notably J/R) use terms like the "continuous action of the play", primarily in dealing with the proper constition of an appeal, none of them introduces any notion that would suggest a run that scores after the 3rd out of the half-inning would be counted - because, by rule, it doesn't.

A "continuation play" is the ridiculous notion introduced in the NBA that allows a player to score a basket even though he was fouled well before he began to initiate a scoring attempt.

Your ruling was correct.

JM
__________________
Finally, be courteous, impartial and firm, and so compel respect from all.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jul 14, 2007, 10:11am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,458
A continuation play is when a basketball player gets fouled in the act shooting.

My point is that if you're getting paid to do upper level ball, you've GOT to know this. There can't even be a question in your mind.

Last edited by kylejt; Sat Jul 14, 2007 at 12:36pm.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jul 14, 2007, 12:27pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 301
It appeared to me that HE DID Know it, but wanted clarification, because a coach did a fantastic job talking out of his ***. We have all seen it, simply relax man.
__________________
3apps

"It isn't enough for an umpire merely to know what he's doing. He has to look as though he know what he's doing too." - National League Umpire Larry Goetz

"Boys, I'm one of those umpires that misses 'em every once in a while so if it's close, you'd better hit it."
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jul 14, 2007, 01:05pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 1,577
Another sad example

Quote:
Originally Posted by wadeintothem
Amer Legion - OBR
Runners at R2@2B & R1@3B 2 outs.
Ball hit to F5. R2 has passed F6 on the way to 3B, for whatever reason, F5 chases R2 who turns around heading back to 2B. By the time the tag is made, BR is at first and R1 has scored. I score the run & out 3.
Coach has a mild myocardial infarction, I tell him its a timing play, BR reached 1st safely and R1 made it home. Coach tells me there is no such thing as a timing play, thats softball (he knows I am primarily a FP umpire), that its a continuation play, the run should not score.
Well, I was confused so I just ended the convo ruling stood, end of story. Nearly had to eject the score keeper who was whining as well that it was a "continuation play"..
So I come to the experts.. what say you?
You made the right call. Dumb rats make your job more difficult. You should have dumped these 2 immediately for disputing the call. Some umpires may wait 2 years to do this. That isn't right either, but it is part of a continuation play.

Last edited by SAump; Sat Jul 14, 2007 at 01:13pm.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jul 14, 2007, 03:23pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Posts: 3,100
Since the coach invoked softball, I'll extend the OP a bit and give an example of a difference between OBR and ASA softball.

In the OP, the run scored before the third out, so it counts (time play). However, if after the tag, F5 still had time to get the BR at 1B, he could have done so for a fourth out and nullified the run.

But in ASA softball, he could not. Even if the BR never left the batter's box, he cannot be put out for a fourth out (because he didn't score).
__________________
greymule
More whiskey—and fresh horses for my men!
Roll Tide!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Timing Play gballerone Softball 8 Mon Jul 11, 2005 07:36pm
Timing Play BigGref Baseball 13 Mon Jun 06, 2005 01:35pm
Timing Play??? rickfriedmann Baseball 9 Thu Jun 02, 2005 10:02am
Timing play hitdawg23 Softball 2 Fri May 06, 2005 08:52am
Possible 2 out timing play rleakins Baseball 9 Tue Apr 19, 2005 08:21pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:40pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1