No such thing as a timing play?

[HokieUmp]

Originally Posted by SAump

OBR 7.10: Any runner shall be called out, on appeal, when --
Appeal plays may require an umpire to recognize an apparent “fourth out.” If the third out is made during a play in which an appeal play is sustained on another runner, the appeal play decision takes precedence in determining the out. If there is more than one appeal during a play that ends a half-inning, the defense may elect to take the out that gives it the advantage. For the purpose of this rule, the defensive team has “left the field” when the pitcher and all infielders have left fair territory on their way to the bench or clubhouse.

Well, if it doesn't; how about 2006 BRD#3, Pg 9-10 Appeals: Advantages Out at First: Live Action
FED, NCAA and OBR Point not covered. FED Official Interp. 2-3: Hopkins. NCAA Official Interp. 3-3: Fetchiet. OBR Official Interp. 4-3: Fitzpatrick. Advantageous 4th Out.

Actually, when I wrote "apparent 4th out" originally. I was referring to appeal plays. I should have written: "Aside from the 'apparent 4th out' on an appeal play, when would that actually happen?" (Aside from a team trying to get over?) My bad for not being more clear.

Greymule's posting said "However, if after the tag, F5 still had time to get the BR at 1B, he could have done so for a fourth out and nullified the run." That is NOT an appeal play, so your quote of OBR 7.10 - and all the other manual pages - is irrelevant. He's saying in his "however" - unless I misunderstand, and he wants to clarify - that the defense made the equivalent of a 5-3 play for this 4th out.

Please tell me that teams, noticing a BR has stopped running to 1st in this sitch, throw to F3 to claim an appeal of a "missed base," or try to say the last out is a force, and thus the run doesn't count.

Sorry, but if a team does that with me, when I'm done chuckling, I send them on their way to bat. Again, if someone wants to quote a rule for me, I'm game to listen.

[Dave Reed]

Originally Posted by HokieUmp

Please tell me that teams, noticing a BR has stopped running to 1st in this sitch, throw to F3 to claim an appeal of a "missed base," or try to say the last out is a force, and thus the run doesn't count.

Sorry, but if a team does that with me, when I'm done chuckling, I send them on their way to bat. Again, if someone wants to quote a rule for me, I'm game to listen.

Well, if a protest committee buys into the BRD or J/R, you might not be laughing last.

From J/R Chapter 10:
" ...3----Not an appeal: Bases loaded, two outs. The batter singles and R2 is thrown out at home for the third out. The batter has been injured and is unable to advance to first, prompting the defense to throw to first against him: this is a advantageous fourth out and supercedes the former third out, and no run can score."

The BRD (2004 ed., article 3) quotes Hopkins (FED), Fetchiet (NCAA), and Fitzpatrick (OBR, or PBUC probably) as all giving the same interpretation as J/R. Childress also comments "Color me not only italized but surprised. I mean, astonished."

For what it is worth (very little), I'm not astonished. Nothing about 7.10(d) says the 4th out is peculiar to appeal plays. Advantageous outs are only mentioned in the context of appeal plays, but that's the only time they are likely to occur.

[SAump]

Originally Posted by HokieUmp

Actually, when I wrote "apparent 4th out" originally. I was referring to appeal plays. I should have written: "Aside from the 'apparent 4th out' on an appeal play, when would that actually happen?" (Aside from a team trying to get over?) My bad for not being more clear.

Greymule's posting said "However, if after the tag, F5 still had time to get the BR at 1B, he could have done so for a fourth out and nullified the run." That is NOT an appeal play, so your quote of OBR 7.10 - and all the other manual pages - is irrelevant. He's saying in his "however" - unless I misunderstand, and he wants to clarify - that the defense made the equivalent of a 5-3 play for this 4th out.

Please tell me that teams, noticing a BR has stopped running to 1st in this sitch, throw to F3 to claim an appeal of a "missed base," or try to say the last out is a force, and thus the run doesn't count.

Sorry, but if a team does that with me, when I'm done chuckling, I send them on their way to bat. Again, if someone wants to quote a rule for me, I'm game to listen.

Exceptions: A run is not scored if the runner advances to home plate during action in which the third out is made as follows.
a. by the batter-runner before he touches first base; or
b. by another runner being forced out; or
c. by a proceeding runner who is declared out because he failed to touch one of the bases or left a base too soon after a caught fly ball; or
d. when a third out is declared during a play in which an umpire observed a base-running infraction resulting in a force out (this out takes precedence if enforcement of it would negate a score); or
e. when there is more than one out declared by the umpire which terminates the half inning, the defensive team may select the out which is to its advantage as in 2-20-2. Credit the putout to the nearest designated baseman. ...

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by SAump

Exceptions: A run is not scored if the runner advances to home plate during action in which the third out is made as follows.
a. by the batter-runner before he touches first base; or
b. by another runner being forced out; or
c. by a proceeding runner who is declared out because he failed to touch one of the bases or left a base too soon after a caught fly ball; or
d. when a third out is declared during a play in which an umpire observed a base-running infraction resulting in a force out (this out takes precedence if enforcement of it would negate a score); or
e. when there is more than one out declared by the umpire which terminates the half inning, the defensive team may select the out which is to its advantage as in 2-20-2. Credit the putout to the nearest designated baseman. ...

What would you call in this situation? I know the correct answer.

With two out, R2 scores from second on B1's single, but fails to touch the plate. B1 becomes the third out when he tries to go to second. Right after the out, R2 returns and touches the plate.