partner????? i guess not...

[Rich]

Originally Posted by VanStanza

I'm certain that no where in the PBUC manual does it avise that it is the PU's responsibility to make the INT call at 2nd. It's true that if the PU sees the INT, then he may call it, but he should be nowhere near the mound in this situation. Unhitch the piano, and haul you butt to the holding area (library) at 3rd base.

Why? The BU has all plays on balls that stay in the infield, including a subsequent play at third base.

Wouldn't PBUC recommend the PU trailing up the FIRST base line and look for pulled tags and swipe feet and other such squirrels?

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

Why? The BU has all plays on balls that stay in the infield, including a subsequent play at third base.

Wouldn't PBUC recommend the PU trailing up the FIRST base line and look for pulled tags and swipe feet and other such squirrels?

What I've learned this year from having the priviledge of speaking with four new MiLB umpires and one AA umpire who worked at PBUC is that what PBUC teaches and what PBUC writes are often two different things.

It would be nice if they were consistent, but from what I've seen, that would require annual, and at times, mid-season rewrites of the manual.

Currently, PBUC, on infield batted balls with R1 only, instructs that the PU has any play at third, on that rare occasion that R1 can run 180 feet on an infield batted ball. (He does NOT, however, have that same responsibility with R1/R3 as he would with a ball to the outfield.)

In the play that started this thread I have been told that primary, or first call responsibility belongs to BU but that PU can make a call absent one from BU.

[LMan]

Originally Posted by Jim Porter

How can a runner interfere with a throw after it has already been made?

In FED, a pop-up slide that contacts the fielder is INT, even if the ball has already been thrown.

[Jim Porter]

Originally Posted by LMan

In FED, a pop-up slide that contacts the fielder is INT, even if the ball has already been thrown.

Never worked FED. Worked for 24 years in an OBR state. OBR for high school, Legion, MSBL, and independent/amateur leagues. But now I have to learn FED since I've moved, so this thread is good for me.

[Jim Porter]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

Why? The BU has all plays on balls that stay in the infield, including a subsequent play at third base.

Wouldn't PBUC recommend the PU trailing up the FIRST base line and look for pulled tags and swipe feet and other such squirrels?

It used to be under PBUC mechanics that the PU had the second play on the infield at third base. That I do know. Once the out at second occurred the PU would bust back for swipe/pulled duties on the first base line. I couldn't say if that's true today.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Jim Porter

It used to be under PBUC mechanics that the PU had the second play on the infield at third base. That I do know. Once the out at second occurred the PU would bust back for swipe/pulled duties on the first base line. I couldn't say if that's true today.

Even that was a big flip-flop. At first it was the recommended mechanics, with "advanced crews" allowed to let the BU take both ends. Now, it's the reverse.

I think.

Anyway, in my games, I come up the side of the mound and watch the slide at second. I can always take R1 to third if something strange happens.

[lawump]

I can say conclusively that in 1997, the BU had the interference call at second in PBUC. The umpire was to see the whole play at second and not take his eyes off of the play at second until the middle infielder released the ball to first. In fact, at the UDP (PBUC) camp that year, it was stressed over and over by "Sarge" not to turn to first too quickly because you (the BU) will miss the interference at second.

The PU was to start up the third base line, and when there was an out at second...start back toward 1BL.

It was not until I came back to the college/high school that I became aware that others organizations give a contradictory instruction (allowing PU to call interference at second).

It shouldn't matter either way...if you have a good pre-game with your partner.

[Jim Porter]

Originally Posted by lawump

I can say conclusively that in 1997, the BU had the interference call at second in PBUC. The umpire was to see the whole play at second and not take his eyes off of the play at second until the middle infielder released the ball to first. In fact, at the UDP (PBUC) camp that year, it was stressed over and over by "Sarge" not to turn to first too quickly because you (the BU) will miss the interference at second.

The PU was to start up the third base line, and when there was an out at second...start back toward 1BL.

It was not until I came back to the college/high school that I became aware that others organizations give a contradictory instruction (allowing PU to call interference at second).

It shouldn't matter either way...if you have a good pre-game with your partner.

Okay, so I'm not wrong, I'm just getting old.

[umpduck11]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Garth, my point is that if it is a shared call, how do you determine which umpire is going to make it? I think that is why so many associations teach it for the PU to take the call if there is a throw to first on the play.

(Post deleted to eliminate redundancy.)

[DG]

Originally Posted by Jim Porter

I'm perplexed, and I can even remember learning the mechanics quite clearly. Not only was I taught to clear the catcher and move up the third base line as PU, but I was also taught as BU not to drift and anticipate the back-end of the double play so that I would be in position to see and call any possible interference.

I've never heard of a PU clearing the catcher and coming out to the pitcher's mound. I've also never heard that the PU's responsible for interference on the front end of a double play. Both of those are news to me.

What you describe is the red book mechanics, but the red book umpires do not have to call the FPSR. The CCA mechanic is for PU to go to 3B side of the mound to assist U1 if needed on a slide at 2b (ie FPSR violation) and then step toward 1B for a secondary responsibility on assistance on swipe tag or pulled foot. This is of course on batted balls to the infield, if the batted ball is near the line or in front of the plate, the PU must stay home to rule on Fair/Foul and to rule on possible running lane violation.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by newump

i had the plate at an american legion game tonight.

I know nothing of legion: I thought they used OBR. If so, why think FED's FPSR applies?

The game ended with just those 2 outs recorded? That's impressive. Sounds as if there are some game management issues -- could your partner have been right not to get involved in the mess? Can you think of how you might have handled the situation better?

[LMan]

I was also under the strong impression that Legion used OBR. I have been reviewing Legion rules recently for an upcoming tourney, and I don't recall any FPSR on the bases in there.

[Jim Porter]

Originally Posted by DG

What you describe is the red book mechanics, but the red book umpires do not have to call the FPSR.

Right, and through my entire career I did not have to call the FPSR. It all makes sense now.

[Jim Porter]

Originally Posted by LMan

I was also under the strong impression that Legion used OBR. I have been reviewing Legion rules recently for an upcoming tourney, and I don't recall any FPSR on the bases in there.

I believe this situation has been on-going for years with Legion. They do use OBR, but because most states use FED rules for high school ball, all they have are FED umpires for Legion ball. And I've heard that some Legion programs have mandated the FED book for their programs.

[PABlue]

And then you get the states OR area's that use a mix of OBR and FED.We have two Districts that are side by side and one uses a mix of OBR,Fed and the other uses pure FED rules!!!!! Go figure and then try to remember which league you're doing before you make a call.