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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jun 18, 2007, 09:49am
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ejection question

10U USSSA tournament game. During pregame conference PU has warned both sides against argueing, etc and has established himself as a stern, untolerable PU. We are playing with 9 players, no subs available.

Game is going smoothly in the 3rd inning when we are up to bat. Our hitter takes a strike and in disbelief of the call looks at the 3rd base coach, raises his hands to his sides, and telepathically tells the coach the pitch stunk. Not something we teach, but I would agree it's not respectful. The PU calls time and screams to the batter "you are ejected from this game". The batter retreats to the dugout, and out comes the head coach. PU tells coach that "it's the second time he has done it", and "it is a poor reflection of your coaching". Coach emphatically denies he teachs that, and asks why a warning was not issued. PU states he did the same thing during his last at bat. Coach grabs the scorebook and says "here look at it, he struck out swinging on 3 pitches last time up". PU now confers with BU and to my amazement- unejects the player.

My questions are: Should a reasonable PU warn the player or coach in this sitch?

Can a player, once tossed, be allowed back in the game.

Is this protestable by the other team.

Thanks guys, love this site and respect all you do.
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Old Mon Jun 18, 2007, 09:53am
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:shrug:




............
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Old Mon Jun 18, 2007, 11:10am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coach2535
My questions are: Should a reasonable PU warn the player or coach in this sitch?

Can a player, once tossed, be allowed back in the game.

Is this protestable by the other team.

Thanks guys, love this site and respect all you do.
Coach, I'll preface my remarks by noting that you should not expect a lot of sympathy here, and should expect instead some suspicion.

Regarding your questions:

1. I would say that it depends on the level. For 10U, depending on what the kid does, I would probably warn the player. But I threw a high school kid out of a game for arguing balls and strikes, and did so with no warning. The rules require no warning for an ejection over arguing balls and strikes.

2. The rules offer no provision for un-ejecting a player, although again, depending on the level, I might try to talk my partner out of it. I would not listen to a coach who tried to talk me out of it.

3. Protests generally depend on league rules. Ordinarily an ejection over arguing balls and strikes would not be protestable, as it is a judgment call rather than a rules interpretation issue.
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Old Mon Jun 18, 2007, 11:11am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coach2535
10U USSSA tournament game. During pregame conference PU has warned both sides against argueing, etc and has established himself as a stern, untolerable PU. We are playing with 9 players, no subs available.

SNIPPED
Plate are no place for warnings unless the two teams have a history (proof) of throwing at one another. This should be decided upon by the TD, assigner or someone else in higher authority. The umpires will give this warning but it should not be their decision! Other than that, the plate meeting is for introductions, ground rules, in play/out of play, sportsmanship (if required by rule) and verification of equipment by the coaches (if required by rule).

Quote:
Originally Posted by coach2535
My questions are: Should a reasonable PU warn the player or coach in this sitch?
I am assuming that you are playing OBR type rules. If so, the only warning in the rules is for "bean balling" in which both dugouts get the warning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coach2535
Can a player, once tossed, be allowed back in the game.
No. If an umpire removes a coach or player from the game "that is all she wrote".

Quote:
Originally Posted by coach2535
Is this protestable by the other team. SNIPPED
Why would the opposition protest over an ejection against the other team?
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Old Mon Jun 18, 2007, 11:44am
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OZZY6900 - Thanks for concise answer. Certainly better then a shrug.

Not looking for sympathy, simply an understanding into proper protocol. We teach these kids to respect umpires at this age to avoid bigger problems at a later age.

When I ask, should a reasonable PU warn for this type of non verbal behavior, I am refering to the spirit of the rule concerning argueing balls and strikes. If raising ones hands in disbelief of a strike call constitutes an ejection, then would an eye roll also constitute an ejection?

In this case the opposition might protest the un-ejection. Had the ejection stood we either go home or play with 8. Would have made a big difference in the game as we won 7-4.
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Old Mon Jun 18, 2007, 12:29pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coach2535
OZZY6900 - Thanks for concise answer. Certainly better then a shrug.

Not looking for sympathy, simply an understanding into proper protocol. We teach these kids to respect umpires at this age to avoid bigger problems at a later age.

When I ask, should a reasonable PU warn for this type of non verbal behavior, I am refering to the spirit of the rule concerning argueing balls and strikes. If raising ones hands in disbelief of a strike call constitutes an ejection, then would an eye roll also constitute an ejection?

In this case the opposition might protest the un-ejection. Had the ejection stood we either go home or play with 8. Would have made a big difference in the game as we won 7-4.
A reasonable umpire can eject for this type of behavior. Not only is it arguing the call, it is incredibly disrespectful to the umpire. What is the purpose of a display of disbelief? It is to communicate with everyone that the umpire doesn't know what he's doing.

Now, where I work this level, we don't eject players below u12, but he would be written up.
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jun 18, 2007, 12:32pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coach2535
OZZY6900 - Thanks for concise answer. Certainly better then a shrug.

It beats what I was going to type at first
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jun 18, 2007, 02:02pm
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That umpire has issues. You don't warn at the plate conference, that is just looking for trouble. How does the umpire know what the player was indicating if he was looking at his coach and didn't say anything? Sure one can infer, but seriously, if it just happens once, even at the HS level, for me that is not something that is going to be addressed the very first time. More then once, sure...

For an umpire to run a freakin' 10 year old for THAT, call me crazy, but that is just being a little too much of a red a$$ for my taste. At that age, they are still learning and a short simple explanation as to why that may not be really appropriate while cleaning the plate would likely do the trick.

IMHO, your mileage may vary...

Quote:
Originally Posted by coach2535
10U USSSA tournament game. During pregame conference PU has warned both sides against argueing, etc and has established himself as a stern, untolerable PU. We are playing with 9 players, no subs available.

Game is going smoothly in the 3rd inning when we are up to bat. Our hitter takes a strike and in disbelief of the call looks at the 3rd base coach, raises his hands to his sides, and telepathically tells the coach the pitch stunk. Not something we teach, but I would agree it's not respectful. The PU calls time and screams to the batter "you are ejected from this game". The batter retreats to the dugout, and out comes the head coach. PU tells coach that "it's the second time he has done it", and "it is a poor reflection of your coaching". Coach emphatically denies he teachs that, and asks why a warning was not issued. PU states he did the same thing during his last at bat. Coach grabs the scorebook and says "here look at it, he struck out swinging on 3 pitches last time up". PU now confers with BU and to my amazement- unejects the player.

My questions are: Should a reasonable PU warn the player or coach in this sitch?

Can a player, once tossed, be allowed back in the game.

Is this protestable by the other team.

Thanks guys, love this site and respect all you do.
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