what's up with Div. 1 umps

[dokeeffe]

Two different super regionals. Two different calls. Both changed (incorrectly) after a gathereing of the umps. One a tag / no tag down the firsty base line and the other a first baseman holding the bag or not. Both original calls correct according to instant replay. What ever happened to "coach it's may call and there wasn't a tag" or "it's my call and he held the bag".

Instead both crews look like idiots undeserving of a playoff spot.

[JRutledge]

This is the problem with the "ask for help" or "get it right" communities. If you have everyone talking after simply plays, you will have mistakes. Forget the D1 level, every damn play that was close in the games I was involved in coaches wanted help to be asked for. This has become an epidemic at all levels. Then we appease the coach for a play that should not be changed on any level.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

This is the problem with the "ask for help" or "get it right" communities. If you have everyone talking after simply plays, you will have mistakes. Forget the D1 level, every damn play that was close in the games I was involved in coaches wanted help to be asked for. This has become an epidemic at all levels. Then we appease the coach for a play that should not be changed on any level.

Peace

Can the umpires even say no to these help requests anymore?

[MichaelVA2000]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

Can the umpires even say no to these help requests anymore?

Yes, an umpire can refuse to go to his partner. Here's an example:

Batter swings and the ball slowly rolls up the line towards third base and beats the throw to first. Defensive coach is granted time and comes to the PU.

C: Blue, that had to be foul, the ball contacted to batters foot.

PU: I've got a fair ball, I never saw the ball hit the batter's foot.

C: Can you get some help from your partner, he was looking in on the play and had a better angle?

PU: No coach, I'm not going to my partner on this one. That's an immediate call. Had my partner seen the ball hit the batter's foot, he would have killed the play had he seen it. Let's play ball coach.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by MichaelVA2000

Yes, an umpire can refuse to go to his partner. Here's an example:

Batter swings and the ball slowly rolls up the line towards third base and beats the throw to first. Defensive coach is granted time and comes to the PU.

C: Blue, that had to be foul, the ball contacted to batters foot.

PU: I've got a fair ball, I never saw the ball hit the batter's foot.

C: Can you get some help from your partner, he was looking in on the play and had a better angle?

PU: No coach, I'm not going to my partner on this one. That's an immediate call. Had my partner seen the ball hit the batter's foot, he would have killed the play had he seen it. Let's play ball coach.

What about the pulled foot scenario (the original play)? I know at the D3 level, I would NOT have gotten help and would NOT have entertained the coach's request. Can the DI umpires working reg and super-reg refuse the request without repercussions from Yeast, et. al.?

If an umpire in A is getting help, why are we even hiring him?

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

Can the umpires even say no to these help requests anymore?

I do it all the time!

Coach - "Blue, you need to check with your partner on that".

Me - "Coach, I've got the call. If I needed help, I would have gotten it before I made the call. Let's get back to the game now!"

I rarely call a conference except on obstruction. That is one call where you may need the input of your PU. He is supposed to be watching the "big picture" in most cases so he can help place runners to the correct bases. Other than that, I'm within 20 feet of the call, why do I want to "huddle" with people that are 50 to 100 feet away?

Regards

[Rich]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

I do it all the time!

Coach - "Blue, you need to check with your partner on that".

Me - "Coach, I've got the call. If I needed help, I would have gotten it before I made the call. Let's get back to the game now!"

I rarely call a conference except on obstruction. That is one call where you may need the input of your PU. He is supposed to be watching the "big picture" in most cases so he can help place runners to the correct bases. Other than that, I'm within 20 feet of the call, why do I want to "huddle" with people that are 50 to 100 feet away?

Regards

Ozzy, there is a special emphasis at the NCAA, and especially the Division I level, for "getting it right." So I'm specifically addressing that level.

I have no problems telling people to pound sand, where appropriate.

[ggk]

i've recently adopted the "2 steps fair" for plays at first. you get a great look at the possible pulled foot from this angle. this is my first year doing college ball and i had play where F3 had to stretch for a throw and clearly came off the bag. i called the runner safe and sold it by indicating that F3 was off the bag. defensive coach went ballistic and demanded that i get help. i refused to do so for the reasons that have been previously stated. i had a great look at the play from 15-20 ft away. there was no way i could go to my partner for help on that play.
i know "get it right" is the mantra and i'm all for that, but is there any ncaa policy which requires us to confer on such a play just to keep a coach happy? i considered going to my partner and telling him that i have the call, but i just want to placate the coach - but i chose to stick it out and take the heat. the only downside for doing so is that you look stubborn and bullheaded in the eyes of the coach. is pride worth creating such an impression?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

Can the umpires even say no to these help requests anymore?

I do all the time when I know my partner was not in position and when it is clear I have the call. For example if I am in the A position and there is a pulled foot or tag issue. I several times this year flat out told a coach I was not asking for help on these plays. I was not popular, but who cares. I am not in this for the popularity contest.

Peace

[LakeErieUmp]

Mr. Rutledge - while I often do not agree with you I would happily work with you! You're my kind of umpire!

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by LakeErieUmp

Mr. Rutledge - while I often do not agree with you I would happily work with you! You're my kind of umpire!

I agree, I applaud his stance on this. Me too.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

Ozzy, there is a special emphasis at the NCAA, and especially the Division I level, for "getting it right." So I'm specifically addressing that level.

I have no problems telling people to pound sand, where appropriate.

I realize that Rich. I have several D1 guys on our board and they agree. The "huddling" is getting out of hand. They only get together for certain things, not every other call (as the case has been).

[Rich]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

I realize that Rich. I have several D1 guys on our board and they agree. The "huddling" is getting out of hand. They only get together for certain things, not every other call (as the case has been).

Good, I'm happy to hear that.

I'm hoping that the overturning of correct calls slows down this practice in situations where it's clear that one umpire (and only one) has the best view of a play and the coaches still shop for their desired call.

[ctblu40]

Originally Posted by ggk

i considered going to my partner and telling him that i have the call, but i just want to placate the coach - but i chose to stick it out and take the heat. the only downside for doing so is that you look stubborn and bullheaded in the eyes of the coach. is pride worth creating such an impression?

And the downside of going to your partner just to please the coach is that now you've dragged him into the fire with you. If you're positive that you got the call right, tell the coach that. I'd rather seem bullheaded than give the coach a reason to take shots at my partner, IMO.

[LMan]

Originally Posted by ggk

is pride worth creating such an impression?

Yes.. ..........