what's up with Div. 1 umps

[UMP25]

Good question. That is a play I've never had happen, which probably means it will happen to me now, and most likely when I'm working with Bob Jenkins.

Regardless, how much do you want to bet that I can get my partner to chime in quickly enough?

[dokeeffe]

Thanks for all the input on my original post. I think there is agreement for the most part. The "get it right" argument is going to lead to more issues than a whore in church. There are going to be days when even the best of us make a call of "out" at first and one split second later realize he was actually safe. Same thing for a third strike call that has an impact. If those have never happened to you, you haven't been on the field long. I hope no one thinks we should reverse ourselves in those situations.

The NCAA, FED and many others can learn a lesson from pros. Get in the best position you can, make the call, and in almost all instances, man up and stay with your call. If the coach thinks it's an ego thing because I won't go to my partner, it's just one more of his thoughts that I couldn't care less about.

I'll say it again, in both games, the D1 crews looked foolish. BTY in another of the super regionals, a coach comes out of the dugout, onto the field, screaming about a balk called against his pitcher. NO EJECTION! Why?????

[BigTex]

Originally Posted by dokeeffe

BTY in another of the super regionals, a coach comes out of the dugout, onto the field, screaming about a balk called against his pitcher. NO EJECTION! Why?????

Because it is not against the rules to argue a balk.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by dokeeffe

The NCAA, FED and many others can learn a lesson from pros. Get in the best position you can, make the call, and in almost all instances, man up and stay with your call. If the coach thinks it's an ego thing because I won't go to my partner, it's just one more of his thoughts that I couldn't care less about.

I would not go too far with that. The pros are the place where a lot of this has started. The pros talk about damn near everything when there is a close play. Then all of the umpires talk when only one or two were involved directly in the play.

Originally Posted by dokeeffe

I'll say it again, in both games, the D1 crews looked foolish. BTY in another of the super regionals, a coach comes out of the dugout, onto the field, screaming about a balk called against his pitcher. NO EJECTION! Why?????

Balks are not automatic ejections. They can argue a balk as long as they do not cross the line. Without knowing what was said we have no idea if the wrong things were said or not.

Peace

[Justme]

Originally Posted by dokeeffe

The "get it right" argument is going to lead to more issues than a whore in church.

Depends on what the whore is doing in the church

Like it or not the "get it right" argument is becoming the recommended (sometimes required) way of doing things. This year our local HS association was preaching this so it is filtering down from the higher levels.

While I both like/dislike this approach I worry that it will become a crutch for the "weaker" umpires by not requiring them to work as hard and improve. It might also cause some of us old guys to get lazy since we can meet in the middle and vote on the call. Bottom line remains as it has always been "hustle, get into position and make your own calls". Go for help only IF you didn't do your job and aren't sure of yourself, not just to make a coach happy.

It gets on my nerves when my partner(s) come to me for help numerous times during a game, especially working 2-man. I'll tell them, "Look, you've got to get into position to make those calls, it's basic umpiring." I also give them what I've got and watch what they do next. I've even told them that I wouldn't change a particular call because the $hit will hit the fan (some calls are best left unchanged).

Originally Posted by dokeeffe

There are going to be days when even the best of us make a call of "out" at first and one split second later realize he was actually safe. Same thing for a third strike call that has an impact. If those have never happened to you, you haven't been on the field long. I hope no one thinks we should reverse ourselves in those situations.

Nope, some calls you can't change. But if an umpire is making calls that he/she isn't sure of a split second later, maybe, they should wait 2 split seconds later before making the call, just to make sure. Sounds like they might have a timing issue.

[SanDiegoSteve]

What issues are there for whores in church? It seems to me to be the perfect place for ladies of the evening to congregate and confess their sins!

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by dokeeffe

... the D1 crews looked foolish...

At least they didn't look like robots.

My experience these last couple of years with "get the call right" is that the "other" coach is usually alright with the changed call. I get maybe two of these a year.

Also, I have NOT had coaches get ridiculous about asking me to "ask for help" all the time, on any close play. Yeah, here and there some dumb assistant says "you gotta ask for help", but most of the head coaches, the guys who I will talk to, understand when I can.

I had one case where I didn't ask for help on a swipe tag on the first base line while I was in B. I was SURE he didn't tag him. I didn't go for help. The game was delayed for 3 minutes with the coach being pissed, and the assistant getting tossed by my partner. My partner said I was the only person in the park that didn't see the tag, yet, I was SOOOOOOOOOOOO sure I had it right.

Generally, before "going for help", you let the coach know "Hey Skip, we are gonna talk about this, but if this call stands, we are not going to discuss it". This is fair, and when you do it, you set the ground rules. If he tries to argue it even after you "went for help", you can warn him to go back to his position, and if he doesn't, you can toss him.

[ctblu40]

Originally Posted by rei

Generally, before "going for help", you let the coach know "Hey Skip, we are gonna talk about this, but if this call stands, we are not going to discuss it". This is fair, and when you do it, you set the ground rules. If he tries to argue it even after you "went for help", you can warn him to go back to his position, and if he doesn't, you can toss him.

This is the type of tid-bit that keeps me coming back here almost daily! This seems like a game management issue that will be easy to start using! Good Job, rei!