I was told last night...

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by 3appleshigh

I was always taught in OBR that if any part of the free foot crosses the back plane of the rubber the pitcher was then commited to pitch (if not going to 2nd base). Are you guys saying that the entire Foot needs to be past the plane??

8.05(a) Comment: If a lefthanded or righthanded pitcher swings his free foot past the back edge of the pitcher's rubber, he is required to pitch to the batter except to throw to second base on a pick-off-play.

The foot part is the same for FED, NCAA, and OBR. NCAA has the "any part of the stride leg" breaking the plane addition.

PBUC official interpretation: The prohibition against breaking the plane specifically applies only to the foot: "If the knee of the pitcher's free leg passes behind the back edge of the rubber but his foot does not, he may legally throw to first base with no violation." --[6.5b]

[UmpJM]

Steve,

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

The foot part is the same for FED, NCAA, and OBR. NCAA has the "any part of the stride leg" breaking the plane addition.

While I certainly agree about the knee, what do you make of the following from the MLBUM (my emphasis)?

(c) When a pitcher swings any part of his free foot past the back edge of the pitcher's rubber, it is a balk if he does not pitch to the batter, unless he throws (or feints a throw) to second base on a pick-off play. (Note that this violation is in reference only to the pitcher's foot. If the knee of the pitcher's free leg passes behind the back edge of the rubber but his foot does not, he may legally throw to first base with no violation.)

Seems a little different from the "entire foot" language found in the FED rule.

JM

[SanDiegoSteve]

Well, what I think is that it differs from what the rule book states. I didn't check MLBUM, only the BRD. Pure lazyness. Now I'm going to check what Evans has to say about it.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Evans says "break the plane" too:

On the "trick 3rd to 1st" move used by the righthander, the umpire should be especially alert for two criteria:

(1) the pitcher may not break the back plane of the rubber with his free foot before attempting the feint to 3rd; and

(2) in his feint to 3rd, he must break contact from the rubber with his pivot foot.

Breaking the plane would be a balk in violation of 8.01(a) and failure to break contact would be a balk in violation of 8.01(c)...not a direct step from the rubber ("while touching his plate").

[DG]

26 minutes into the Jim Evans balk video, Jim shows the LH pitcher breaking the back plane with his knee without breaking the back plane with his foot, and mentions that some LH pitchers have gotten creative with this. And it's legal. It's really not that hard to do, and I have seen this a number of times. A pitcher who can perfect this can really hold 'em close at 1B.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by DG

26 minutes into the Jim Evans balk video, Jim shows the LH pitcher breaking the back plane with his knee without breaking the back plane with his foot, and mentions that some LH pitchers have gotten creative with this. And it's legal. It's really not that hard to do, and I have seen this a number of times. A pitcher who can perfect this can really hold 'em close at 1B.

1. That isn't what I was talking about. I believe my discussion concerned breaking the back plane with the knee while keeping the foot in front of the rubber.

2. I know what they went through to get that shot.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by DG

26 minutes into the Jim Evans balk video, Jim shows the LH pitcher breaking the back plane with his knee without breaking the back plane with his foot. . .

Originally Posted by GarthB

1. That isn't what I was talking about. I believe my discussion concerned breaking the back plane with the knee while keeping the foot in front of the rubber.

Isn't that pretty much exactly the same thing?

[DG]

Originally Posted by GarthB

1. That isn't what I was talking about. I believe my discussion concerned breaking the back plane with the knee while keeping the foot in front of the rubber.

2. I know what they went through to get that shot.

I believe the segment on Evans balk video exactly explains breaking the back plane with the knee while keeping the foot in front of the back plane. If you are making a point about the foot in front of the rubber vs. back plane you are picking nits, it still has not passed the back plane.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Evans says "break the plane" too:

On the "trick 3rd to 1st" move used by the righthander, the umpire should be especially alert for two criteria:

(1) the pitcher may not break the back plane of the rubber with his free foot before attempting the feint to 3rd; and

(2) in his feint to 3rd, he must break contact from the rubber with his pivot foot.

But his balk video clearly shows "entire foot".