I was told last night...

[harmbu]

Originally Posted by nickrego

If you're in a good mood, you tell the coach he has 1 minute to find it in "HIS" rule book. Otherwise, we play based on my knowledge and interpretation of the rules. Protest if you like (said with a smile).

I sure hope you are joking. The problem is I have encountered umpires before with that attitude. What do you do when you have an umpire who comes up with something that is way off and nowhere to be found in the rulebook.

I have no recourse but to call the assignor after the game when it is too late.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by harmbu

I sure hope you are joking. The problem is I have encountered umpires before with that attitude. What do you do when you have an umpire who comes up with something that is way off and nowhere to be found in the rulebook.

I have no recourse but to call the assignor after the game when it is too late.

You seem to know your book. Except for the part that's important now... Read up on protests - and use it.

[LMan]

Originally Posted by harmbu

I sure hope you are joking. The problem is I have encountered umpires before with that attitude. What do you do when you have an umpire who comes up with something that is way off and nowhere to be found in the rulebook.

I have no recourse but to call the assignor after the game when it is too late.

After you offered your POV and he rejects it, isn't this between him and the coach(es)? He's tossing himself under the bus here.

What else do you want to do about it during the game? Shout about it? Wrestle him like SDS wants to do whenever a partner shows up in white gloves after Labor Day?

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by LMan

After you offered your POV and he rejects it, isn't this between him and the coach(es)? He's tossing himself under the bus here.

What else do you want to do about it during the game? Shout about it? Wrestle him like SDS wants to do whenever a partner shows up in white gloves after Labor Day?

Does nobody get that the original poster is the coach and he's talking about ignorant umpires, not his parnter and not other coaches?

[LMan]

Originally Posted by GarthB

Does nobody get that the original poster is the coach and he's talking about ignorant umpires, not his parnter and not other coaches?

****. I quit, see ya Monday. Maybe.

[justanotherblue]

As already cited, you were told wrong. All codes agree, if the foot breaks the back edge of the rubber, he must go home, unless feinting or throwing to 2B. NCAA only requires the knee to break the back edge as JM stated.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by justanotherblue

As already cited, you were told wrong. All codes agree, if the foot breaks the back edge of the rubber, he must go home, unless feinting or throwing to 2B. NCAA only requires the knee to break the back edge as JM stated.

No. NCAA requires that any part of the stride leg/foot breaking the back plane commits the pitcher to home or second.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by GarthB

No. NCAA requires that any part of the stride leg/foot breaking the back plane commits the pitcher to home or second.

Nope -- it's the entire foot or any part of the leg. 9-3.l

Originally Posted by justanotherblue

As already cited, you were told wrong. All codes agree, if the foot breaks the back edge of the rubber, he must go home, unless feinting or throwing to 2B. NCAA only requires the knee to break the back edge as JM stated.

In FED - ENTIRE foot must break plane of the back edge.

f. failing to pitch to the batter when the entire non-pivot foot passes behind the perpendicular plane of the back edge of the pitcher's plate, except when feinting or throwing to second base in an attempt to put out a runner.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by LMan

Wrestle him like SDS wants to do whenever a partner shows up in white gloves after Labor Day?

Are you lookin' for a fight, buddy?

[nickrego]

Originally Posted by harmbu

I sure hope you are joking. The problem is I have encountered umpires before with that attitude. What do you do when you have an umpire who comes up with something that is way off and nowhere to be found in the rulebook.

I have no recourse but to call the assignor after the game when it is too late.

Here's the deal...

We don't carry rule books, we are supposed to know the rules. Now, most of us are not professional umpires, so we do make mistakes. And that includes interpretation of the rules. So, when a coach questions our application of a rule, if I think it is appropriate, I will give the coach the opportunity to prove me wrong, based on showing me the rule, in the rule book.

He can argue his rule knowledge against mine all day long, but he is not going to change my mind, or waste game time doing it. If all we have is two opinions, the umpire's must win out.

For the record, I only give the coach the opportunity if I am not sure about the situation. And that is only for those rare occasions when something obscure, that happens once in a career so your not really up on it, is the issue.

And don't ask me for an example. I can't tell you about a rule I don't know about. Why, because if I don't know about it, how can I know about it ?

[jkumpire]

Men,

Frankly, we all know that most of us have people in our area who do not take the game as seriously as we do. For some people, I would recommend carrying a book with them, or as the FED Umpire manual says, to have one easily available.

For most of us, we would never tolerate someone bringing out the book to try and correct us, it may well be an ejectable offense. But I woulkd rather have somebody get the call right by having a rule book with them to refer to than messing things up.

Of course, having said that we need to also admit that coaches should never carry a rule book with them to a game, live hand grenades in the dugout can always blow a coaches hand off or worse, get him ejected.....

Originally Posted by jkumpire

For most of us, we would never tolerate someone bringing out the book to try and correct us, it may well be an ejectable offense. D

Why would it be an ejectable offense for a coach to bring out the book? If a coach has a rules interpretation question, he has every right to bring out the book if he so desires, and you can't do a d$$$ thing about it. If you toss for this reason, it's more than likely either your pride or your ego got in the way. If the coach brings out the book and he's right, say thank you, change your call, suck it up, shut up and finish the game.

p.s. Be thankful that he doesn't make you look like a horse's a$$.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BigGuy

Why would it be an ejectable offense for a coach to bring out the book? If a coach has a rules interpretation question, he has every right to bring out the book if he so desires, and you can't do a d$$$ thing about it. If you toss for this reason, it's more than likely either your pride or your ego got in the way. If the coach brings out the book and he's right, say thank you, change your call, suck it up, shut up and finish the game.

p.s. Be thankful that he doesn't make you look like a horse's a$$.

There's a right way and a wrong way to question a call / rules interp. Bringing out the rule book is the wrong way, and is considered "Showing up" the umpire. If a coach asks politely and it's a complicated ruel (think NCAA DH), then I might go (and have gone) into the dugouot to look it up.

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

There's a right way and a wrong way to question a call / rules interp. Bringing out the rule book is the wrong way, and is considered "Showing up" the umpire. If a coach asks politely and it's a complicated ruel (think NCAA DH), then I might go (and have gone) into the dugouot to look it up.

Bob,

I understand the point that some would think it's showing up the umpire, and depending upon the demeanor of the coach there are times when I might think the same, and that there are better ways to get the point across. However, the act itself of bringing the book out in and of itself cannot be an ejectable offense because the coach does have the right to state his case regarding a rule interpretation. The only reason I say that is because there are umpires who would absolutely refuse to believe a coach was right and he was wrong unless the rule book was in their face. If the important thing is to make sure the correct call is made, then at some point in time either the umpire acknowledges the coach is right and corrects the call if in fact that is the case, or he says no, and the coach decides to protest the game. If you're the umpire what would you rather do, get the call right, or trust your luck on a protest?

Personally, I've never been shown the rule book at a game, and I would probably not like it. But on the other hand, refusing to acknowledge the book presented by a coach amounts to showing him up, and that is certainly not the intention either, and I can't justifiably toss him because of it.

There are many ways to address the issue, some a lot better than others, plus it can get out of hand. My point was not to suggest something argumentative, but to just suggest that absent any misconduct on the part of the coach, bringing out the book cannot result in an ejection and nothing more.