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Old Thu Mar 01, 2007, 08:51pm
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Mechanics

Asked by a poster on another board that I moderate.

"Runner on 1st. Ball hit into the gap. Runner at 1st comes around and slides into 3rd. Base umpire calls him out. Coach argues and says that's not his call, that he should be following the trail runner(the batter) and that it was the home plate ump's call. Of course, the play stood.

What are the mechanics for this call/who's call is it?"


Thanks fellas. Have a good season!
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Old Thu Mar 01, 2007, 09:17pm
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CCABUM, Page 72-73

Coach has a small bone to pick. I can only guess it is there to keeps us on our toes. Different mechanic with R1 and R2.

{Edited to delete: Now if it were any other manual, PBUC for example,} I believe an alternative would have the BU takes the first play in the infield. PU then stays home for possible play at the plate and partner should take the play into 3B; while also glancing back at B/R's touch at 1B and continuation to 2B. This is the CCABUM mechanic on a clean hit to the outfield with R1 and R2 described on page 82.

Then to keep us on our toes again, a similar mechanic to the one you described is used on a caught fly ball to center field with R1 and R2 found on page 83. Nothing is said about a fly ball to left but I suppose it is the same mechanic and these two mechanics change on a fly ball to right.

Last edited by SAump; Fri Mar 02, 2007 at 12:18am.
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Old Thu Mar 01, 2007, 09:43pm
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1) BU unless you have worked out something else with your partner.
2) Thank you for that inspirational message Coach, now go back to your dugout.
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Old Thu Mar 01, 2007, 09:54pm
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Unless I am reading this wrong. With a runner on first only, It would be the plate umpires call. He should rotate up and go into third when the ball and the runner take him in. He should also let his partner know that he is coming up the line and then into the play. However, if the base ump continues into the play, the plate ump should just start moving back to the plate and have a little talk with him later on. This is PBUC, CCA, and high school mechanics.
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Old Thu Mar 01, 2007, 09:57pm
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PU parallels the 3B line in foul territory until he is sure R1 is coming to 3B, then moves into fair territory with a good angle to 3B to make the call. BU has tags at 2B and 1B and anything else that happens at 2B and 1B. If I see my partner moving toward 3B I will holler out that I have 3B, but since I always cover this situation in pre-game it's not normally necessary. If I am working bases I generally point toward 3B with my left hand and my back toward home to remind my partner (don't always work with the same guys).

I don't think the manuals disagree on this.

Last edited by DG; Thu Mar 01, 2007 at 10:00pm.
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Old Thu Mar 01, 2007, 10:48pm
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Definitely the PU call!!! But, if I am the PU and the BU followed him in, I am backing out!

Usually the argument from the coach is because the opposit (the right way) happening! LOL

Now go back to your pathetic NFHS BBS!
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Old Fri Mar 02, 2007, 12:16am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAump
PU has to have the confidence that his BU will do his job right and nail the call when an opportunity like this is present.
This is a basic first to third situation. PU should take the play at third. Unless this is a new "advanced mechanic" being taught at SA's clinic.
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Old Fri Mar 02, 2007, 12:48am
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Regardless of the mechanics being followed, the coach has NO BUSINESS (or standing) to question or object to who made what call on any play on the bases. This is solely a matter for the umpires' concern.

JM
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Old Fri Mar 02, 2007, 12:57am
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Do the math, ball hit into gap

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaff
This is a basic first to third situation. PU should take the play at third. Unless this is a new "advanced mechanic" being taught at SA's clinic.
The coach isn't paid to instruct umpires. He's paid to keep runners from being thrown out at 3B. He should do his job well.

OP did not state entire story, HTBT. One could only imagine where the PU was at the time. R1 should have been standing UP safely at 3B on any ball hit into the gap 95% of the time, if not trying to score. Suggests PU stayed HOME for possible play at the plate. The call at 3B then belongs to BU's unless PU calls him OFF of it.

PU hustling back to cover the plate presents about as difficult a challenge as BU going to 3B first, and then to 2B. One of them isn't tired and lugging around equipment either. PRO guys believe the PU's primary responsibility is at the PLATE. It looks bad if PU goes out toward 3B and then comes hustling back to the plate.

Not to be confused, it is much easier for the BU to take the play into 3B from straight LF and straight CF. PU taking the play at 3B is the advanced mechanic written in the manuals and being taught in the clinics. This point has already been stated several times. Young guns have the edge in 2-man. Advised to do whatever association/level dictates.

Last edited by SAump; Fri Mar 02, 2007 at 01:13am.
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Old Fri Mar 02, 2007, 01:43am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BktBallRef
Asked by a poster on another board that I moderate.

"Runner on 1st. Ball hit into the gap. Runner at 1st comes around and slides into 3rd. Base umpire calls him out. Coach argues and says that's not his call, that he should be following the trail runner(the batter) and that it was the home plate ump's call. Of course, the play stood.

What are the mechanics for this call/who's call is it?"


Thanks fellas. Have a good season!
Ignoring the issue with the coach for a second, this is a pretty basic play.

With R1 and a clean hit to the outfield, PU comes up the third base line in foul territory to the library telling his partner "I've got third if he comes."

If R1 continues past second and there appears to be a play building, (remember it takes the ball and a runner to make a play), PU moves into fair territory and to the cut out telling his partner, "I've got third, I've got third."

If no play is going to be made, PU announces "I'm going home." and glances at the touch at third as he goes back to the plate.
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Old Fri Mar 02, 2007, 02:17am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GarthB
Ignoring the issue with the coach for a second, this is a pretty basic play.

With R1 and a clean hit to the outfield, PU comes up the third base line in foul territory to the library telling his partner "I've got third if he comes."

If R1 continues past second and there appears to be a play building, (remember it takes the ball and a runner to make a play), PU moves into fair territory and to the cut out telling his partner, "I've got third, I've got third."

If no play is going to be made, PU announces "I'm going home." and glances at the touch at third as he goes back to the plate.
This reminds me of a story from when I was in my first or second season, and a very high level umpire was working the plate. On a routine 1st to 3rd play on a base hit, I, the BU, did not hear my partner tell me that he had third if he comes or anything, so I kept going, only to see my partner right on top of the play when I turned with the throw. I backed down and gave it to him. Later I asked him about it, and told him that I didn't hear him say anything, so I didn't think he was going to get there. He told me something that I'll never forget. He said, "It's my job to be there, so that's where I'm going to be."
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Old Fri Mar 02, 2007, 09:57am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BktBallRef
Asked by a poster on another board that I moderate.

"Runner on 1st. Ball hit into the gap. Runner at 1st comes around and slides into 3rd. Base umpire calls him out. Coach argues and says that's not his call, that he should be following the trail runner(the batter) and that it was the home plate ump's call. Of course, the play stood.

What are the mechanics for this call/who's call is it?"


Thanks fellas. Have a good season!
As the others have said, the *standard* mechanic is for PU to take this play. But, if PU falls down or falls asleeep, BU needs to take it. If PU is injured or immobile, then the crew can agree for alternate mechanics that would give the call to BU.
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Old Fri Mar 02, 2007, 10:09am
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This is a perfect example of why you do not listen to what coaches say.

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Old Fri Mar 02, 2007, 10:41am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAump
The coach isn't paid to instruct umpires. He's paid to keep runners from being thrown out at 3B. He should do his job well.

OP did not state entire story, HTBT. One could only imagine where the PU was at the time. R1 should have been standing UP safely at 3B on any ball hit into the gap 95% of the time, if not trying to score. Suggests PU stayed HOME for possible play at the plate. The call at 3B then belongs to BU's unless PU calls him OFF of it.

PU hustling back to cover the plate presents about as difficult a challenge as BU going to 3B first, and then to 2B. One of them isn't tired and lugging around equipment either. PRO guys believe the PU's primary responsibility is at the PLATE. It looks bad if PU goes out toward 3B and then comes hustling back to the plate.

Not to be confused, it is much easier for the BU to take the play into 3B from straight LF and straight CF. PU taking the play at 3B is the advanced mechanic written in the manuals and being taught in the clinics. This point has already been stated several times. Young guns have the edge in 2-man. Advised to do whatever association/level dictates.
Sorry to disagree with you SA but IT IS the plate guys play at third unless he deems the runner from first is going to score relatively easily, or at least make it to third easily. The and only then should he tell his partner, " I am staying home!" Other than that he need to go toward third. And this is the way the pros do it.
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Old Fri Mar 02, 2007, 10:51am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rei
Now go back to your pathetic NFHS BBS!
Poor guess. There's a Baseball board on the NFHS forums. That should tell you that the post wasn't posted there or I wouldn;t be offering it here.

Thanks for the replies, fellas.
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